I've taken a moment to draw out what the Synergy horns would look like placed on top of the Sub in the corner of a room. Looking at those numbers on a straight edge can make the dimensions feel large, so I wanted to apply them 'in context':
Even though above 30" isn't going to make much of a difference, it seems like the 37" horn would fit better in this situation. With it being slightly further from the wall, more space for the actual rear of the enclosure is available.
Also, the T18 sub is meant to be placed 12" from a corner (firing back into that corner), so any reduction in interference from a speaker stacked on top of it will allow it to corner-load as well as it can.
I was quite surprised by how 'small' the larger Synergy horn appears in context!
Even though above 30" isn't going to make much of a difference, it seems like the 37" horn would fit better in this situation. With it being slightly further from the wall, more space for the actual rear of the enclosure is available.
Also, the T18 sub is meant to be placed 12" from a corner (firing back into that corner), so any reduction in interference from a speaker stacked on top of it will allow it to corner-load as well as it can.
I was quite surprised by how 'small' the larger Synergy horn appears in context!
Looks at room...needs to go find a tape measure when the kids are finally sleeping.
You gave me an idea that I hadn't thought about.
You gave me an idea that I hadn't thought about.
Haha winslow...I'm glad I've found someone in the same situation! 🙂 It's fun...diapers aren't, but yes, when they're asleep it's time for us to be creative 🙂
I'm glad I've given you an idea too, and I'm looking forward to seeing the result! I'd love to hear the Edgar horns if/when you have a chance to get them running!
I'm glad I've given you an idea too, and I'm looking forward to seeing the result! I'd love to hear the Edgar horns if/when you have a chance to get them running!
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My Edgars are just the base model Slimline horns in plain old unfinished wood. 6" horn loaded midbass, 5: JBL 104 in tractrix horn, and I upgraded the tweeters to Beyma CP21/fs.
Maybe if I can talk the wife into swapping some furniture around...maybe, just maybe...
Maybe if I can talk the wife into swapping some furniture around...maybe, just maybe...
I'm looking forward to seeing the setup!
Back on the horn design, I was just thinking...if I could make the walls part of the horn (say, the final stage, S2-S3), could I make the first stage (S1-S2) 'connect' to it?
I know it's possible, but what angle of dispersion would I have to consider? Given that the speaker will be placed at 45 degrees from the right-angle (or however close the house is!) of the corner, do I need to make it 135 degrees, so that the final stage of the horn ends up at its 90 degree dispersion? I suppose the ending shape of the horn would be that of a parabolic one.
That's only horizontal dispersion, so I suppose there would have to be some consideration make to the vertical dimension.
Obviously it's just an idea, so I'm prepared to still work on the 37" Synergy 🙂
Back on the horn design, I was just thinking...if I could make the walls part of the horn (say, the final stage, S2-S3), could I make the first stage (S1-S2) 'connect' to it?
I know it's possible, but what angle of dispersion would I have to consider? Given that the speaker will be placed at 45 degrees from the right-angle (or however close the house is!) of the corner, do I need to make it 135 degrees, so that the final stage of the horn ends up at its 90 degree dispersion? I suppose the ending shape of the horn would be that of a parabolic one.
That's only horizontal dispersion, so I suppose there would have to be some consideration make to the vertical dimension.
Obviously it's just an idea, so I'm prepared to still work on the 37" Synergy 🙂
my corner loaded synergy on base bin plans
It seems like you ended up where I've been for a little while. Here are some sketchup pictures that show what I've been thinking of. The first is a 90x40 conical synergy on top of a basebin that is designed as an offset horn covering up to 200 hz. Its 150L and takes an AE TD12X tuned to 25 hz. The 4 FE25 mids in the synergy are ported to cover down to 100 hz. The overlap is to deal with ceiling bounce. The roundovers are based on 4" diameter half and quarter rounds that can be found on the web. The second shows how I plan to blend the horn into the corner. The roundovers are based on 4" diameter half and quarter rounds that can be found on the web and likely will be attached as trim pieces after installation. The first picture - a screenshot from my sketchup design is a work in progress and doesn't have those details yet. No saying when I will get to build this but I'm running out of excuses not to start.
It seems like you ended up where I've been for a little while. Here are some sketchup pictures that show what I've been thinking of. The first is a 90x40 conical synergy on top of a basebin that is designed as an offset horn covering up to 200 hz. Its 150L and takes an AE TD12X tuned to 25 hz. The 4 FE25 mids in the synergy are ported to cover down to 100 hz. The overlap is to deal with ceiling bounce. The roundovers are based on 4" diameter half and quarter rounds that can be found on the web. The second shows how I plan to blend the horn into the corner. The roundovers are based on 4" diameter half and quarter rounds that can be found on the web and likely will be attached as trim pieces after installation. The first picture - a screenshot from my sketchup design is a work in progress and doesn't have those details yet. No saying when I will get to build this but I'm running out of excuses not to start.
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unaHm, did you ever get any kind of information supporting the use of the T18 sub up to 200-300 Hz?
Thanks for that nc535, your design pretty much looks like what I'd like to do in my head...although, the drivers I have wouldn't be a 'drop-in' replacement. Still, it's food for thought, and I did start wondering about seeing if there was a 'triangular' design for the T18 while I was on the way to a gig tonight...heh 🙂
I wonder what I'd need to change for the three drivers per side that I have:
- MCM 55-2421 8" long-throw woofer
- Eminence Alpha 8a 8" midrange woofer
- Pyle PDS521 2" Compression Driver tweeter
I didn't. In all honesty I completely forgot! Thanks for reminding me, I'll get in touch with Bill Fitzmaurice to see what he says. 🙂
This is a good thread. Along the same lines I was thinking just this week -- I have the T18 plans and the mid horn plans from Wayne. Then top it off with the Pyle PH714 horn for that "vintage look" and wa-la!
The alpha 8s are about 1.25" deeper than my mids. You can accommodate them by spacing up the top and bottom of the conical horn cabinet or perhaps using a larger vertical dispersion angle.
The long throw mids if put on the sides will no doubt force the horn sidewalls further away from the walls. That is one of the reasons I kept the woofers out of the synergy horn. Chances are I will do a center channel version with them in it on the sides...
The Pyle CD has a shorter internal acoustic path than my BMS4550s so your mid holes will end up in a different place than mine.
The long throw mids if put on the sides will no doubt force the horn sidewalls further away from the walls. That is one of the reasons I kept the woofers out of the synergy horn. Chances are I will do a center channel version with them in it on the sides...
The Pyle CD has a shorter internal acoustic path than my BMS4550s so your mid holes will end up in a different place than mine.
It sounds like there are just enough differences where it might be easier for me to use a different design, rather than trying to 'patch' something that works with different hardware 🙂 Thanks for the inspiration! I wasn't intending on using the 55-2421s within the horn; more just using them in a separate sub cabinet like you have underneath the Synergy horns.
Very nice! That was something along the lines that I'd originally had, but there has been so much talk regarding the Synergy horns here I'm excited to follow that path...'because it's cool' 😉
I've had a response from Bill Fitzmaurice, and he said:
Actually, that is probably just fine as long as one is used per channel either adjacent or directly under the mid horn.
Are you sure your woofer will do 200Hz clean? A 6.5"-8" driver (PA, Hifi or fullrange) will do 150Hz usually. If you want bass for movie explosions, a sub that is lowpassed at 80Hz is better.
That midhorn has straight walls. Make some kind of curve at least. I like round tractrix horns, and I like to make them just a little deeper. I tried a replica of the Avantgarde Acoustic Trio midhorn and it was way to shallow. Sounded like a waveguide.
That midhorn has straight walls. Make some kind of curve at least. I like round tractrix horns, and I like to make them just a little deeper. I tried a replica of the Avantgarde Acoustic Trio midhorn and it was way to shallow. Sounded like a waveguide.
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It looks like Synergy horns use a conical shape, or at least a 'twin flare' design, and I would imagine that's because of the ease of mounting the offset drivers.
I don't think HornResp will even let you calculate offset drivers for Tractrix or Le Cleac'h profiles.
But, a few pages ago I showed a picture of three different exports from HornResp of a Tractrix shape, with one (the black lines) consisting of two stages. The first stage might be large enough to accommodate the woofer, but I'd have to do a bit of re-calculation in order to adjust for the 2" throat area for the compression driver, and the woofer in its offset position.
I'll probably be aiming to cross the subs at 125Hz, which would be fairly easy to do with the T18, and the Synergy horn that I've come up with so far.
I don't think HornResp will even let you calculate offset drivers for Tractrix or Le Cleac'h profiles.
But, a few pages ago I showed a picture of three different exports from HornResp of a Tractrix shape, with one (the black lines) consisting of two stages. The first stage might be large enough to accommodate the woofer, but I'd have to do a bit of re-calculation in order to adjust for the 2" throat area for the compression driver, and the woofer in its offset position.
I'll probably be aiming to cross the subs at 125Hz, which would be fairly easy to do with the T18, and the Synergy horn that I've come up with so far.
Synergy horns are not so common here. I was thinking about it too but I prefer compression drivers. You could also try a typical frontloaded Lowther traxtrix horn with a closed backchamber.
I think that's why I want to try it 🙂
I also have no budget for any more compression drivers (unless anyone reading this is willing to send some mid/bass compression drivers over...I might be able to afford the shipping! 😉 ), and it would be my preference too, but unfortunately I'm limited at the moment!
I also have no budget for any more compression drivers (unless anyone reading this is willing to send some mid/bass compression drivers over...I might be able to afford the shipping! 😉 ), and it would be my preference too, but unfortunately I'm limited at the moment!
Why would you need to? I mean the difference in all the flares down near the throat aren't all that much different plus have little/no audible impact on the horn's response except at/above its usable BW, which usually translates into a less 'pinched' [distorted]sound, so just make the horn conical out to the end of the driver mount.
GM
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