what range is defined by "midbass"?
here's RCA-Fan's 15" wide midbass horn for a 12" driver - I think it should do ok with 12pe32
re: RCA-Fan's little folded 70Hz hypex - here's a graph with a JBL D120 (lower trace was a Fostex blh) it might be cool with a 12pe32 for some purposes - what is the actual sensitivity of the little T18? what driver is used?
here's one - looks like the builder made it wider than spec - that might have helped with some drivers
building a subwoofer cab
Apologies for the hijack of sorts... I see this posted every now and then, but can't find much in-depth discussion to reference. Are there hornresp numbers getting around for the Hypex 70? I'd like to sim a few drivers but couldn't enter the horn numbers from scratch
found some info here: ot - anyone here who would cut these compound angle pieces? (Page 2) / FullRangeDriver Forum / Fullrangedriver Forum
/end hijack
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
/end hijack
This tractrix horn seems to be alright. I've not really done anything with the back chamber or the throat area, but here is what I have so far:
Above 80Hz it's just over 106dB, and then as you can see on the graph it rises and falls to about 101dB at 1kHz...
Above 80Hz it's just over 106dB, and then as you can see on the graph it rises and falls to about 101dB at 1kHz...
Hornresp upper response assumes the cone acts as a piston.
Actual response will be higher (with peaks) in the upper end.
The Alpha 8 Xmax is 3.2mm, not 5.
I've been trying to find a way of changing the Xmax in hornresp, but it doesn't seem to be available. What other values should I change to correct that?
Or, is that comment line just an example?
I've tried to get Hornresp to 'make a horn for me'. Putting in a lower crossover of 150Hz and an upper crossover of 1kHz:
In the HELP file, scroll down to 'maximum SPL' to learn how to input/change amp power and driver excursion.
Note that HR's 'Ang' is overly optimistic, so for real world corner loading, 1.0 pi is a better choice.
Such a wide BW horn requires a proper phase plug, so not a trivial build plus I seriously doubt the driver can handle a 14:1 CR at anywhere near its rated power.
GM
Note that HR's 'Ang' is overly optimistic, so for real world corner loading, 1.0 pi is a better choice.
Such a wide BW horn requires a proper phase plug, so not a trivial build plus I seriously doubt the driver can handle a 14:1 CR at anywhere near its rated power.
GM
I assumed you entered the comment line with the incorrect Xmax, it evidently is just an example.
I usually put the name of the speaker and it's Xmax in the comment line.
Xmax is a fixed speaker parameter, it does not change.
Power, in volts, (the Eg field) can be changed, then you can observe the excursion level for advances in voltage.
Entering a voltage that results in excursion greater than Xmax will make for results that the speaker is not capable of, as voltage beyond Xmax will not increase output linearly, though Hornresp assumes a linear relationship.
Art
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GM, thanks for the information and the advice on the half space placement!
Art, I'll stick with the typical voltage as I don't want to damage any drivers!
I've done another 'wizard' version of a horn based on this data, so here we go!
Does HornResp always choose the 'Hyp' curve type for automatically generating a design?
Art, I'll stick with the typical voltage as I don't want to damage any drivers!
I've done another 'wizard' version of a horn based on this data, so here we go!
Does HornResp always choose the 'Hyp' curve type for automatically generating a design?
Hi unaHm,
You are looking at the constant directivity (power) response. For finite single-segment horns you can use Tools > Directivity > Response to calculate the pressure response. The on-axis SPL at 1 kHz then rises to a little over 105 dB. The increase is due to directional "beaming" at higher frequencies. The pattern below shows the directivity at 1 kHz when radiating into a solid angle of 0.5 x Pi steradians, as given in your example.
Kind regards,
David
Attachments
I am a HR newbie, but if you clear out the data in S1-Sx and double click the hyp field it will let you change to whatever.
I am also trying to figure out why some drivers have the behaviour your response shows while some are smoother on the same horn. What driver parameters do that. Specifically I mean the lower knee has a rise then a valley then a rise, etc.
I took a bunch of other folk's HR designs and put other usual candidate drivers in and get that behaviour, specifically the first hump at the lower knee and then a concave valley thereafter while some are smoother between the first two humps.
Not a question about Hornresp, but about horns in general.
Some page's ago we talked about "roomloading" (don't now a better word) a horn. I had some doubts about this. Which led me to believe a 75 frequency cut off horn should not be used under 150 Hz. Is there some more information out there about this? I have only once seen this happen in a measurement. The German magazine Hobby Hifi got this Fc 50 horn down till -3dB @30 Hz. (page where the complete review can be downloaded) Would be nice if we could predict this somehow, more loading = less driver excursion. Is this a Hornresp option? Or is there a way to simulate this?
Another question, about reactance annuling. If the backchamber volume of a frontloaded cone horn has to be matched extremly carefull to the load the fronthorn presents. Wouldn't the same principle apply to compression drivers?
Some page's ago we talked about "roomloading" (don't now a better word) a horn. I had some doubts about this. Which led me to believe a 75 frequency cut off horn should not be used under 150 Hz. Is there some more information out there about this? I have only once seen this happen in a measurement. The German magazine Hobby Hifi got this Fc 50 horn down till -3dB @30 Hz. (page where the complete review can be downloaded) Would be nice if we could predict this somehow, more loading = less driver excursion. Is this a Hornresp option? Or is there a way to simulate this?
Another question, about reactance annuling. If the backchamber volume of a frontloaded cone horn has to be matched extremly carefull to the load the fronthorn presents. Wouldn't the same principle apply to compression drivers?
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David,
Thanks for your response, and for HornResp! 🙂
Would you consider the beaming effect of this horn to be 'bad'?
Hi guys,
Great thread, all over the place and a lot of learning in process. I like it! I don't hang around here very often, I just clicked by for a change and read this thread almost in one go. I am going to respond with some thoughts, sorry if they miss the "red line" of this thread.
Concerning cone drivers in a mid horn: the midrange (or our ears in that range) is particularly sensitive to reflections, colorations, HOM etc. etc. etc. So it's vital to make a horn that is as free from those detrimental effects. The thing that makes the Tractrix and the LeCleach expansion types so good for midrange, is that their large full-size mouths and very specific curve (in its entirety). The horns that I see simulated in Hornresp in this thread seem to have smaller than optimal mouths, presumably to keep size and length down. You want to go horn and compression driver for best sound and then make a sacrifice like that. It seems a shame. Also, much of the mouth expansion in Tractrix and LeCleach is in a short/the last stretch of horn anyway, so you don't save much length at all.
A good place to look for inspiration for cone mid horns is BD-Design of Oris horns. These are based on the tractrix curve, with some special tricks and tweaks on the curve by the designers. They use fullrange drivers and the response is balanced from Fc (between 180 and 270 Hz, depending on size and driver used) all the way up to treble. They are zero-compression. Length is something like 30 to 40 centimeters. The balance of driver, length, throat size and mouth size yields the desired response. I have built standard tractrix horns myself and they already sounded very good. I didn't have measurement equipment at the time, so no measurements. But I found that with the right driver, calculating and building an Oris-like tractrix horn that sounded balanced was easy.
I don't know if this article was mentioned: http://www.volvotreter.de/downloads/Edgar-Midrange-Horn.pdf
It also has some ideas about making the most of hornloaded cone drivers.
For what it's worth, if JMLC said the Monacor KU-516 is a good driver, I would take his word for it. A german magazine used it for midrange duties in a Cornwall klone and was very happy with it. It doesn't cost that much, so if you want to go all compression driver, why not take a chance on it.
Regards,
Ivo
Great thread, all over the place and a lot of learning in process. I like it! I don't hang around here very often, I just clicked by for a change and read this thread almost in one go. I am going to respond with some thoughts, sorry if they miss the "red line" of this thread.
Concerning cone drivers in a mid horn: the midrange (or our ears in that range) is particularly sensitive to reflections, colorations, HOM etc. etc. etc. So it's vital to make a horn that is as free from those detrimental effects. The thing that makes the Tractrix and the LeCleach expansion types so good for midrange, is that their large full-size mouths and very specific curve (in its entirety). The horns that I see simulated in Hornresp in this thread seem to have smaller than optimal mouths, presumably to keep size and length down. You want to go horn and compression driver for best sound and then make a sacrifice like that. It seems a shame. Also, much of the mouth expansion in Tractrix and LeCleach is in a short/the last stretch of horn anyway, so you don't save much length at all.
A good place to look for inspiration for cone mid horns is BD-Design of Oris horns. These are based on the tractrix curve, with some special tricks and tweaks on the curve by the designers. They use fullrange drivers and the response is balanced from Fc (between 180 and 270 Hz, depending on size and driver used) all the way up to treble. They are zero-compression. Length is something like 30 to 40 centimeters. The balance of driver, length, throat size and mouth size yields the desired response. I have built standard tractrix horns myself and they already sounded very good. I didn't have measurement equipment at the time, so no measurements. But I found that with the right driver, calculating and building an Oris-like tractrix horn that sounded balanced was easy.
I don't know if this article was mentioned: http://www.volvotreter.de/downloads/Edgar-Midrange-Horn.pdf
It also has some ideas about making the most of hornloaded cone drivers.
For what it's worth, if JMLC said the Monacor KU-516 is a good driver, I would take his word for it. A german magazine used it for midrange duties in a Cornwall klone and was very happy with it. It doesn't cost that much, so if you want to go all compression driver, why not take a chance on it.
Regards,
Ivo
Thanks for your input Ivo! The Oris horns are definitely nice, and the examples I've seen and heard on YouTube suggest that they're quite effective, especially with the Fostex drivers, or a high-quality full-range loudspeaker.
I'll look into the Cornwall clones - thanks for identifying them! I've been agonising about the fact that JMLC likes those drivers, and I really do want to try them!
Maybe, if Jean-Michel is following this thread, could he offer details of his experiences with them? The thing that puts me off is the distortion graph that Phenoholic Anonymus posted a number of pages ago - it provides 'just enough' doubt 🙂
I'll look into the Cornwall clones - thanks for identifying them! I've been agonising about the fact that JMLC likes those drivers, and I really do want to try them!
Maybe, if Jean-Michel is following this thread, could he offer details of his experiences with them? The thing that puts me off is the distortion graph that Phenoholic Anonymus posted a number of pages ago - it provides 'just enough' doubt 🙂
Thanks Winslow - that's a shame. I hope I can continue his legacy in a small way!
Also, thanks for all of your contributions to this thread. I apologise for not mentioning that earlier!
Also, thanks for all of your contributions to this thread. I apologise for not mentioning that earlier!
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