Nice post SUM. Educational.
I actually wish that all DVD/BR players can with a dynamics adjustment. My old one had it and it was a nice feature. There are times where I love to have the huge dynamic swings and other times where I just can't have them. The effects of the huge dynamics are more of the experience to me, but some of these Hollywood blockbuster type films can just have too much of the extremely loud content and it seems to loose its thrill.
Just my 2 cents,
Dan
I actually wish that all DVD/BR players can with a dynamics adjustment. My old one had it and it was a nice feature. There are times where I love to have the huge dynamic swings and other times where I just can't have them. The effects of the huge dynamics are more of the experience to me, but some of these Hollywood blockbuster type films can just have too much of the extremely loud content and it seems to loose its thrill.
Just my 2 cents,
Dan
No worries, thanks for clarifying. I just wanted to post that I really do not listen at ear bleeding levels.
The Behringer choice though is a good example of a low cost HT choice (IMO), they do have decent SPL and in a smaller room they would work better then the speakers most people are buying (comercial bookshelf optinos).
I have heard the Behringers and for their price tag they are definitely impressive. Actually I found it more impressive that they are made by Behringer 😉
Very interesting point of view. Obviously music has went the route of compressing the peaks but I hope movies never do. I enjoy peaks that make my hair stand up or even suprise me and others enjoying the movie, this is not only the bass but the midrange. No matter what, its all better if the peaks are clean. Its just a choice, Dynamic volume, DSP options are available for all who choose a little less dynamics.
I never realized the potential or what I was missing using speakers even like Paradigms until I experienced a custom room with JBL K2s. Ever since then I have just said "I WANT THAT".
That's hilarious. Did you know they have dentists in Great Britain.(that's a joke people)
My friend has bragged about these things for a long time. I laughed inside and thought they'd have a Bose-like "accurate" or something. 😱: nownow: Then I saw a set of Behringer 2030 measurements on the web that still had a lot of room reflections in them and they were darned good including polar response and CSD. Soongsc would love the CSD as it's very clean. Then Dr. Geddes showed measurements of a Behringer that also looked good. So on my chopping block they went. I was foolish for thinking brand and price were a good indicator of design. I returned the speaker yesterday with egg on my face. I was glad that I didn't tell him that there was no way those Behringers were any good. I almost placed a wager with him that they'd look awful if measured, but I held my tongue. I was very sure they were junk a few months ago even though I never heard them. The measurements of the 2030s I saw made me suspicious, and Dr. Geddes made me curious enough to have a look for myself. Now I'm sure. Funny that I had no desire to test his subjective impressions or even listen to the speakers, b/c the subjective impressions of these things on the web are all over the place.
Dan
You have made several comments that are absolutely incorrect. I trust no one takes your comments as being accurate or expert.
1. Auditory damage is due to levels that are excessive. It has nothing to do with distortion in the reproduction. I hope no one will take your speculation seriously and expose themselves to levels that will cause hearing damage.
2. If you are regularily listening to levels that are near 108 dBa (if you have measured it correctly), then you are most likely already suffering permanent threshold shifts (noise induced hearing loss). I am only making an educated guess since I do not the sepcifics of your listening habits and measures.
This is nothing to joke about or offer your speculation as some sort of expertise. Noise induced hearing loss is a real problem and should be taken seriously.
I think he was referring to the fact that when you reduce NON-LINEAR distortion (particularly broad-band based non-linear distortion), that the sound doesn't seem as loud and as a result you often end-up listening at louder spls. Of course because you listen at louder spl's you are more likely to subject yourself to hearing damage. 😉
..and this is the problem with labeling something "most" important. While polars might be "most" important for overall design.. it's entirely possible that numerous other factors are "almost" as important - and perhaps far more difficult to achieve (or improve). 😉
I don't follow your logic. Read this link: Audio Musings by Sean Olive: The Dishonesty of Sighted Listening Tests Sighted listeners are biased just as Doug and I were. It had nothing to do with the sound. Heck, I didn't even hear it and assumed it was junk. I probably would have made problems up in my head upon hearing just because I know the brand reputation if I did hear this speaker. Application/implementation are crucial as well. If your using the product in ways that aren't conducive to good sound, you subjective impression may be off. Actually will be off. There are a million things that could be wrong on the end user side and I don't care to even attempt to discuss them as I'll surely leave many out and it would be much too long for a single post.
FWIW, the majority of subjective impression were very positive.
Dan
FWIW, the majority of subjective impression were very positive.
Dan
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WithTarragon- I was writing about "sounding loud" and not actual SPL. Allow me to state high frequencies is where distortions tend to pile up energy wise and moderately high SPL, due to distortions, at 15kHz will rip the ear a new one where the same SPL at 75Hz won't do much of anything damage wise. Damaging SPL versus frequency is not a straight flat line.
As for my listening- I never listen to anything that hurts which has included some systems playing very quietly- 80dB average level and those were still painful. I use hearing protection at almost all live events because those hurt also- to much distortion and to loud both! Now my home system- it never hurts. and plays very loud. As for my hearing "loss," last test put me in the 95 percentile for my old age though it has been a few years.
As for my listening- I never listen to anything that hurts which has included some systems playing very quietly- 80dB average level and those were still painful. I use hearing protection at almost all live events because those hurt also- to much distortion and to loud both! Now my home system- it never hurts. and plays very loud. As for my hearing "loss," last test put me in the 95 percentile for my old age though it has been a few years.
Everyone has multiple biases.. It's a matter of *if* the particular bias has significantly intruded upon the subjective response.
And sure, "misuse" could have played a factor as well. Perhaps even unknown physical damage or a poor performing production run resulted in the negative opinions, or perhaps the opinions were not formed on the basis of sound at all.
BUT there is *also* the potential that to some people there were subjective factors that were NOT the result of significant bias, or misuse, or broken product, etc.. (..and sometimes you can even get a good idea of this from descriptions by these people.)
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I am curious what kind of SPL you get in your car while driving . Over here 87db is considered low, but to me, the number seems pretty high.
Scott, when you snip my quote, please state it.
It's possible that many things could or could not be. That's why I didn't want to go into those thoughts--it's just a waste of time. I'd rather stick with what's known. It's not a matter of "if" and your "also" doesn't make sense to me. Would you care to explain it? Have you read revues on that speaker or any in its line? It's just silly banter. The measurements are what they are even though incomplete.
Dan
It's possible that many things could or could not be. That's why I didn't want to go into those thoughts--it's just a waste of time. I'd rather stick with what's known. It's not a matter of "if" and your "also" doesn't make sense to me. Would you care to explain it? Have you read revues on that speaker or any in its line? It's just silly banter. The measurements are what they are even though incomplete.
Dan
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it should be perceived as any kind of reverb should it? If so, I've never heard a speaker with a poor CSD.
Dan
I've just noticed they have the 2031A and 2030A here, so it might be interesting to get a chance to listen to them.
Hey all- it was meant as a joke! Reverb with very short decay. HAHAHA
Please laugh with me😱
I was browsing through the web site. The Behringer story reflects my feelings very much. Trying to design things that are agressively priced is a very difficult thing.
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