gedlee said:
pjpoes said:
I'd suggest that the type of mask suitable for MDF would not be the same as one for painting.
I use a 3M mask designed for paints, and a twin canister mask (http://www.screwfix.com/prods/21462/Workwear-PPE/Protective-Clothing/Respiratory-Protection/MDF-Mask) for MDF.
If I were to spray isocyanates indoors, then an air-fed system would be a must. In fact, I'd feel a little uneasy about spraying anything indoors without air-fed gear. It never hurts to be cautious. The problem is that a compressor to run a mask and a gun simultaneously is seriously expensive.
My mask is a twin canister which I use for paint and MDF. MDF is the easier to filter because its particles. Paint fumes are not and they require a charcoal filter. As I said, with the three things that I have done to minimize exposure, I am comfortable that its under control.
pjpoes said:
Matt from what I can tell none of the water based paint come in aerosols. If you want water based then you have to spray it yourself.
I once tried a water based aerosol, it was worthless.
Well is this aerosol going to be any better than what I have. That finish seemed durable, it just was taking 2-3 days to dry. It was still tacky after a solid 24 hours. Maybe I should hold off. My current compressor can only produce around 3-4 cfm's, and only holds something like 5-6 gallons of air. For sanding and airtools you need 8-10cfm's and 20+ gallons of air, and for paint, it can't hurt to have that much overhead. I'm going to look at local pawn shops for a used compressor of that size. That was the problem I had was that I could only do a part of a coat before the air pressure dropped below 30psi and I had to stop and wait while it charged back up.
I had an inexpensive turbine sprayer, but the hose developed a hole in it from the cold causing it to become brittle. Do you think investing in a used turbine sprayer of higher quality might be a better investment than a larger air compressor? I see them come up on ebay for 2-300 dollars from time to time. I think even a pawn shop used air compressor of the size I need is going to cost that much or more. I noted that even a Craftsmen of the size I want is over a grand, so I don't see them selling it for 200 dollars.
I had an inexpensive turbine sprayer, but the hose developed a hole in it from the cold causing it to become brittle. Do you think investing in a used turbine sprayer of higher quality might be a better investment than a larger air compressor? I see them come up on ebay for 2-300 dollars from time to time. I think even a pawn shop used air compressor of the size I need is going to cost that much or more. I noted that even a Craftsmen of the size I want is over a grand, so I don't see them selling it for 200 dollars.
gedlee said:
I'm told that the MDF rated masks have canisters with two parts (white/grey and brown in the UK) because one part is for the dust, and the other is vapour rated for the gases that MDF apparently gives off when it's cut.
pjpoes said:
I have a reasonable turbine, but I'd always favour a compressor. OK, it's bigger, heavier and more costly, but the compressor is much more versatile. I've been considering buying another small compressor to have one for the mask and one for the gun, as the big ones, as you say, are very expensive.
One alternative, is to get a small (50 litre/13 US gallon) compressor and invest in a smaller HVLP gun. Some of the detail guns require less air, and for painting speakers they're easily large enough.
Matt
If you can only spray outdoors then I'd wait until you can do that in decent weather as I don't think anything is going to work in the cold.
Everything depends on your gun.
I prefer the turbine for spraying but only if the gun is designed for that turbine. You can't really mix and match HVLP guns and turbines very well. If your compressor can't keep up with your gun, then a different gun is the better move. Decent guns for water based are pretty cheap - Home Depot has decent ones. But HVLP guns usually do require a lot more CFM. Use a gravity feed gun for the water based paint. Water based does not like to be thinned to much and so the gravity feed helps.
If you can only spray outdoors then I'd wait until you can do that in decent weather as I don't think anything is going to work in the cold.
Everything depends on your gun.
I prefer the turbine for spraying but only if the gun is designed for that turbine. You can't really mix and match HVLP guns and turbines very well. If your compressor can't keep up with your gun, then a different gun is the better move. Decent guns for water based are pretty cheap - Home Depot has decent ones. But HVLP guns usually do require a lot more CFM. Use a gravity feed gun for the water based paint. Water based does not like to be thinned to much and so the gravity feed helps.
Gravity feeds still use about 2-3 cfm's, and I found that my compressor was cycling too much. You know, there is what the manufacturer claims, and what you actually get. I need to maintain 40psi to get a good finish, and with the cycling, I couldn't do that, I ranged from 20-90 on the tank, causing my outlet pressure to drop every time the tank fell below 40, which was quite frequent.
The turbine system's I had looked at included a gun, so that is what I was going to get. The one I have is supposed to be getting repaired. They said their was a known problem with the material used for the hose, so they were going to send me a knew one. Then I was told to send my hose and gun back to them as they were going to send out a new gun and house with a different setup. It's been about 4 weeks, so we shall see. The unit is made for Rockler in China, so I'm sure it's a generic unit.
The turbine system's I had looked at included a gun, so that is what I was going to get. The one I have is supposed to be getting repaired. They said their was a known problem with the material used for the hose, so they were going to send me a knew one. Then I was told to send my hose and gun back to them as they were going to send out a new gun and house with a different setup. It's been about 4 weeks, so we shall see. The unit is made for Rockler in China, so I'm sure it's a generic unit.
Matt
Thats still ALL gun dependent. A non-HVLP does not take much CFM at all if the gun is a smaller sized gravity feed. I've used minuature compressors with those guns (1 gal. tanks and only about 2 CFM). There are guns in about every size that you can imagine. That gun in your photos is NOT what I would use. Its probably a large tip made for lots of air and a very thick paint layer. This requires very high air flow.
Thats still ALL gun dependent. A non-HVLP does not take much CFM at all if the gun is a smaller sized gravity feed. I've used minuature compressors with those guns (1 gal. tanks and only about 2 CFM). There are guns in about every size that you can imagine. That gun in your photos is NOT what I would use. Its probably a large tip made for lots of air and a very thick paint layer. This requires very high air flow.
Yeah the one in the photo is a siphon feed rated at 2-3cfm from campbell hausfeld. I thought the cfm rating implied it would be ok, but when you adjust the spray pattern correctly, I think it uses more air than the rating implied. That or my tank and compressor is worse than I realized. I should look for a non-hvlp gravity feed gun huh? Any recommendations, all the ones I saw were either HVLP or too big.
pjpoes said:
Gun type, compressor type, and needle are all critical requirements to get right for the material you're spraying - as is a moisture trap for the compressor.
Ant (ShinObiWan) has a lot of experience with different spraying kit, and even gave me an old gun he'd got (which was way better than anything I had). It's worth giving him a PM and telling him I said to ask - he'll give you loads of options.
Try this outfit:
http://www.spraygunworld.com
The staff is very knowledgeable.
The Astro is a knock off of the Iwata at 1/4 the price.
http://www.spraygunworld.com/products/Astro/index.htm
Ray
http://www.spraygunworld.com
The staff is very knowledgeable.
The Astro is a knock off of the Iwata at 1/4 the price.
http://www.spraygunworld.com/products/Astro/index.htm
Ray
"...powder coating the harpers...just need to get an old used oven to stick in your basement."
What temp/how long does it take to fuse the powder?
It would have to be quick enough that the underlying wood doesn't get too hot.
I've made the mistake of trying to harden spray plastic finish on wood parts by putting them on the oven at 200 deg; hundreds of bubble blisters was the result.
What temp/how long does it take to fuse the powder?
It would have to be quick enough that the underlying wood doesn't get too hot.
I've made the mistake of trying to harden spray plastic finish on wood parts by putting them on the oven at 200 deg; hundreds of bubble blisters was the result.
Powder Coating on Wood It can be done. They seem to indicate using special powder coatings, but I've seen others that suggest the regular cheap stuff I see for sale on ebay all the time is fine too. I've only down a little bit of it myself. Basically you heat the wood first, then spray it on so it sticks, then bake it to fuse the finish. Typically it's done at 375 degrees. I think many of the MDF ones are more like 285 degree's F, something like 140 degree's Celsius.
The only powder coating I do is when preparing a pizza 😉 I like DIY but at a certain point it really doesn't make any sense anymore (to me). For me that point was reached when you guys started discussing spraying guns and paint booths.
Well I bought a powder coating hobby kit off ebay once that wasn't being bid on. It came with the necessary stuff to do metal objects. Wood is trickier, and not something I would chance doing on my own. It does appear to require some specialized powders. Anyway, it's really easy to powder coat metal objects yourself, just don't do it in your own oven.
As for painting, I bet you would be surprised. I bought my undersized compressor and my first sprayer for roughly 150 dollars total. I bought it to paint some unfinished wood furniture I had. It was a great investment, helps make the painting go much faster, and gives a nicer finish. Then I bought some screen paint from www.paintonscreen.com and sprayed that onto a cheap chinese built screen I had with a damaged finish, put a very smooth and even finish on the screen. I also purchased a different spray gun for latex and used that to do my bedroom. On the positive side, I was able to get a very unique finish on the walls with very little texture. On the negative side, you have to empty the room of everything, cover every surface you don't want paint on very carefully, and be very careful of the ceiling. I actually masked my ceiling off around the edges.
With proper air supply it sprays much better than aerosol cans. The pressure can be adjusted, and is typically much higher than in a can. I found it was more even, less spattering than with a can, easier to control, quicker, and less fatiguing. Don't know about you but I find it very hard on my fingers to hold down that little trigger and often develop blisters on me fingers when painting large projects. In other words, I really like a spray gun a lot better. These speakers were the largest thing I ever tried painting with my compressor (I rented one for my room), and it was too small for the job, causing me to have to pause a lot (still perfectly possible to get a good finish, just took longer). The Grainger paint came today, apparently they tell you they can't sell it to you, then send it anyway. I bought that in spray form to see if I can't avoid the compressor problem I was having. I also bought a trigger adapter to help with the fatigue issue I mentioned earlier. This will wait till it's warmer though.
As for painting, I bet you would be surprised. I bought my undersized compressor and my first sprayer for roughly 150 dollars total. I bought it to paint some unfinished wood furniture I had. It was a great investment, helps make the painting go much faster, and gives a nicer finish. Then I bought some screen paint from www.paintonscreen.com and sprayed that onto a cheap chinese built screen I had with a damaged finish, put a very smooth and even finish on the screen. I also purchased a different spray gun for latex and used that to do my bedroom. On the positive side, I was able to get a very unique finish on the walls with very little texture. On the negative side, you have to empty the room of everything, cover every surface you don't want paint on very carefully, and be very careful of the ceiling. I actually masked my ceiling off around the edges.
With proper air supply it sprays much better than aerosol cans. The pressure can be adjusted, and is typically much higher than in a can. I found it was more even, less spattering than with a can, easier to control, quicker, and less fatiguing. Don't know about you but I find it very hard on my fingers to hold down that little trigger and often develop blisters on me fingers when painting large projects. In other words, I really like a spray gun a lot better. These speakers were the largest thing I ever tried painting with my compressor (I rented one for my room), and it was too small for the job, causing me to have to pause a lot (still perfectly possible to get a good finish, just took longer). The Grainger paint came today, apparently they tell you they can't sell it to you, then send it anyway. I bought that in spray form to see if I can't avoid the compressor problem I was having. I also bought a trigger adapter to help with the fatigue issue I mentioned earlier. This will wait till it's warmer though.
sploo said:
Air feed respirator usually uses it's own oil less compressor. Regular air compressor will not provide breathable grade air.
It is true that talking paint guns and spray boothes is far astream of the real topic. I am clear in the manual that painting is a subject well beyond my abilities and interest to document. If you have to ask MY help to paint the speakers then you really shouldn't be doing it yourself. Paint is a complex subject and there is no one way.
Powder is way beyond my ability. I'll stick with my HVLP as I can get what I want and thats all that matters.
Powder is way beyond my ability. I'll stick with my HVLP as I can get what I want and thats all that matters.
R-Carpenter said:
Excellent point. I've got a DeVilbiss full face mask, though my compressor isn't oil less. The mask comes with a filter pack, but I believe I really should add a coalescer filter for air-fed use, to get the air quality up to standard.
I'd intended to use the compressor for the mask and my turbine for paint, but after finding a gun on the compressor was way better than the turbine, it left me with a dilemma over what route to take.
When I next have a big spraying job I might purchase an oil less unit to run the mask. Do you know if you need a coalescer filter for one of these compressors?
What do you think about topcoat instead of a paint? After grinding and polishing it looks like this one:
http://www.zgpph.com/kolumny/zdjecia/mietki_03.jpg
http://www.zgpph.com/kolumny/zdjecia/mietki_03.jpg
sploo said:
Sploo, it's a specific compressor with a set of filters. I don't remember which one I've used but it was always a nice clean flow of cold air. The system (mask, compressor and accessories) coasted $900.
It was about 15 years ago.
May be there's a set of filters that can create breathable air from regular compressed air, that I am not sure.
Air fed is very awkward to works with and you also have to consider where to locate the feeding compressor itself. Did you end up making yourself a small spray booth?
Roman.