I'm not sure that the "high-end" industry ever decided that they did or did not need the recording industry.
*Exceptions abound, but it's usually after the high-end Co. is "established" that the manufacturer specifically targets the recording industry. Even then, in most cases (as you've noted) it's for advertising rather than market share - and that is comparatively rare.
In most cases (market segment) there really isn't a "cross-over" between the two. High-end does it's thing for consumers and the Pro-market does it's thing specifically for the recording and sound-reinforcement markets.
There were of course BEFORE the "high-end" industry (or at least before it gained any significant market share starting in the '80s), when there were comparatively few brands and most of the larger brands did market to the recording industry.
*mostly from British products.
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Maybe you should use your skill to try and expand on the statement below, that might make for an interesting and useful discussion
Aiming to have the reflected energy as flat as possible is what leads to omni designs. Flat sound power. In a big enough room these can create an impressive wall of sound, but they won't be for everybody.
Aiming to have the reflected sound to be "spectrally similar" to the direct sound does seem to be a good idea and helps to avoid having the direct sound coloured from the reflected. A gradual fall off towards high frequencies with distance fits that quite well.
In a controlled environment, they might be. (..and by "everybody" I mean a substantive majority with typical stereo loudspeaker reproduction.)
Of course people place speakers all over rooms, with varying rooms and furnishings. 😱
Thank you Art, i too feel this thread is much ado about reinventing a well known wheel....aka much ado about nothing...
sorry camplo, not picking on you ...just talking my truth....
sorry camplo, not picking on you ...just talking my truth....
Ofcourse, if a person decided to do all 3 nobody could stop them.
But I don't think its wise to assume (like you seem to do) that a mastering engineer is a master at all 3 just because he/she is a mastering engineer.
Being a mastering engineer doesn't grant you special powers that instantly make you a speaker engineer or a room treatment specialist.
Nothing stops a mastering engineer from learning about these fields, but just being a mastering engineer doesn't instantly make one an expert at al of them.
Mastering monitors should have minimum reflected energy / low dispersion. The beam should be aimed at the listening position, the room around that should receive as little sound energy as possible so there's little to reflect.
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Agreed. This thread is about a mastering engineer trying to convince people why mastering engineers like him should have a say in speaker design.
I dare you to go back and prove where I didn't say that I wasn't the guy to literally lead this conversation. Maybe not unlike me, but like me, thats a stretch. Maybe I could do some good? I think I said Bob Katz at the beginning lol and even that got shot down lol.
Once again, I didn't say that. If there were a truth there, it is this, there is more people trying to be the Mastering Engineer + Loudspeaker Designer + Room Designer. You can argue that with me if you'd like. I guess maybe in so many words I said what you are saying? I compared the speaker box builder to the room builder.
Who agrees with this....Geddes? Floyde?
That is a valid, opinion. There's always, more.
Imagine if this conversation went on forever. Infinite knowledge transfer
By "sorted out" you mean "did as told"...Theres always insight that one could not have without the long road. Whether they were nice enough to have an experience similar enough your own and put it in a book for you to read. Thats a gamble.
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I can't say you guys aren't having fun. Debating is fun for me, I always feel better after a good debate. There is learning in this thread.
I know you guys love me, you take very good care of me here.
Yet here you are post after post? You're attracted to 22 page deep, one star threads then lol!
There is no “master engineer” that would deny that knowledge of speaker designs and their limitations, room design and acoustical treatment are all useful in making one “better” at their job.
That said, a “Jack of all trades” often is a master of none.
Around the year you were born, at the 1983 Minnesota Music Awards Prince won first place in 5 separate categories, and I received a “Technical Achievement Award” primarily for speaker design work. You can see Prince humping my 1981 era speakers in the movie Purple Rain, released in 1984.
Having worked, communicated and learned from hundreds of engineers with major achievements in recording, room and speaker design increased my knowledge base.
Even reading this thread has increased my knowledge base- I’ve learned bass traps are now available that are slightly more effective for their size for a far greater cost than technology available 50 years ago.
A good mastering engineer will choose the right tools for the job, and not try to reinvent the wheel. If you decide to use tools you build yourself, it won’t bother engineers that have already sorted out what you haven’t learned 🙂.
Your implications that there is some bit of information or insight to speaker design that mastering engineers know, yet has been hidden, not communicated or ignored by speaker designers does bother me, as it is simply not true.
Also not true that “one group decided they didn't need the other”, loudspeaker designer companies still use master engineers to pimp their products ;^).
Art
How do you go from
to
A fringe theory is an idea or viewpoint which differs from the accepted scholarship in its field. Fringe theories include the models and proposals of fringe science, as well as similar ideas in other areas of scholarship, such as the humanities.
Heavy is the head that holds the crown....but I don't feel like I pushing something that is far fetched, if anything, like has been stated, in so many words, "Hasn't this already been done?" Of course it has, of course the car designer also is a fan of driving cars...this is the formula, always has been. Some how a re-ignition of this process needs to happen. Or at the very least it never results in a bad thing.
You guys should really watch the netflix episode. No ones calling her autistic, she makes more money than I do lol....but I understand her easily...I see her ideas and approach, with a clear window. If this is a brand of autism lol I would not unsubscribe.
https://www.netflix.com/watch/80237094?trackId=200257859
and no I'm not basing my approach off of hers, I ran into this video post, posting....funny how things work out.
Heavy is the head that holds the crown....but I don't feel like I pushing something that is far fetched, if anything, like has been stated, in so many words, "Hasn't this already been done?" Of course it has, of course the car designer also is a fan of driving cars...this is the formula, always has been. Some how a re-ignition of this process needs to happen. Or at the very least it never results in a bad thing.
You guys should really watch the netflix episode. No ones calling her autistic, she makes more money than I do lol....but I understand her easily...I see her ideas and approach, with a clear window. If this is a brand of autism lol I would not unsubscribe.
https://www.netflix.com/watch/80237094?trackId=200257859
and no I'm not basing my approach off of hers, I ran into this video post, posting....funny how things work out.
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maybe there was one of those cross discipline mastering engineers that crossed the use of high compression (i.e. the loudness wars) with radio sales....
Ouch....can I put an implication that all parties use their newly found super powers for good not evil? Perfect responce Turk, because its DIY crowd that is the light in the darkness for loudspeaker and audiophile enthusiast. I'd say that Mastering Engineers need this crowd more so than the loudspeaker designers need mastering engineers....as said, they'll just change the eq to their liking anyway lol, kidding in a way (because mastering is way more duh). I see it as a mutual relationship, but DIY crowd is to me, what I describe it to be, the light.
And before it gets misconstrued, I am talking about, the best, of the best, of different groups, coming together.
Sometimes that turns into "the best we have at the moment" or "available"....I don't see DIY suffering too much if at all.
Do it yourself Audio...
au·dio | \ ˈȯ-dē-ˌō \
Definition of audio (Entry 1 of 3)
1: of or relating to acoustic, mechanical, or electrical frequencies corresponding to normally audible sound waves which are of frequencies approximately from 15 to 20,000 hertz
2a: of or relating to sound or its reproduction and especially high-fidelity reproduction
b: relating to or used in the transmission or reception of sound
— compare VIDEO
c: of, relating to, or utilizing recorded sound
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- This about people of different disciplines coming together brother, what point are you making?
even this man is confused, he contradicts his self within a few sentences.
+
= I don't know what I'm talking about lol!
- If you guys reeaally think ATC has not a mastering engineer in the mix (no pun intended) of things I think you are mistaken. How can we prove this? Can I email ATC or something?
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