March Audio Sointuva

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#21
hifijim said:
There is research which shows that most people prefer an in-room response that gently slopes down by about 1 dB per octave from 100 Hz to 10 kHz. By in-room I mean as measured at the listening position, at a normal listening distance.

That is about 6 dB total drop from 100 to 10k. If the room is well damped, and the listening distance is large enough, then the natural LF room gain and HF loss will create this preferred response at the listening position. However, in many rooms it will not, so the designers engineer a non-flat response into the speakers to try to achieve this. Shelving the tweeter down by a few dB will often get the job done.

I have found it is program dependent also. I have three DSP filter presets which I can switch between. Preset (1) is anechoically flat on-axis, preset (2) has a smooth 4 dB drop from 100 to 10k, and preset (3) has a smooth 6 dB drop from 100 to 10k. I have found that preset (1) is best on most classical music and most jazz, but it is too bright on nearly all pop music. For those I use preset (2). Only a few recordings are so bright that they need preset (3).

j.
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I have found that anechoic flat already creates the house curve mentioned at listening position in most rooms..

I can understand gradual shelving after 1-2KHz, but sudden drop at 1- 2KHz?
 
#23
Yes, DI curve, on-axis response and room size/positioning/RT all affect how a speaker sounds. One can do some predictions and one might have preference for certain kind of sound.

A very interesting part of hifi/diy (speaker) hobby!
 
#25
hifijim said:
There is research which shows that most people prefer an in-room response that gently slopes down by about 1 dB per octave from 100 Hz to 10 kHz. By in-room I mean as measured at the listening position, at a normal listening distance.

That is about 6 dB total drop from 100 to 10k. If the room is well damped, and the listening distance is large enough, then the natural LF room gain and HF loss will create this preferred response at the listening position. However, in many rooms it will not, so the designers engineer a non-flat response into the speakers to try to achieve this. Shelving the tweeter down by a few dB will often get the job done.
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It is the DI of the speaker that creates the downsloping response not room gain and high frequency loss although they do alter it.

Conventional cone and dome speakers have a rising DI, they become increasingly directional as frequency rises this is what creates the falling power response.

If you put a speaker with true constant directivity in the same room the power response will be flat or at least much flatter, which is why they often have the on axis sloped a little to avoid sounding bright.

The DI and the power response are the inverse of each other. If the DI rises the power falls, and if the DI is flat the power stays flat.
 
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#26
Ultima Thule said:
Any name of the author or some other directions I can go on looking it up, would be interested reading that study, thanks.
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Floyd Toole and Sean Olive. Toole's Sound Reproduction book is the best start but there are many papers and video available too

https://www.pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/15_Mfrs_Publications/Harman_Int'l/AES-Other_Publications/LS_Measurements_Listener_Prefs.pdf


P.S I think this thread has been badly named by the OP, it should have been called discuss anything else but the March Sointuva 🙂
 
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#27
fluid said:
P.S I think this thread has been badly named by the OP, it should have been called discuss anything else but the March Sointuva 🙂
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Haha! The Sointuva is a commercial speaker, and a great one at that, so we have nothing to pick apart so instead we start discussing waveguides and DI's 🤓 The other hero here is Erin - after Amir kicked both Alan (March) and Erin out of his sandbox how else was march going to get such measurements and exposure?
 
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#30
Ultima Thule said:
Any name of the author or some other directions I can go on looking it up, would be interested reading that study, thanks.
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Subjectively-preferred-steady-state-room-curve-targets-in-a-typical-domestic-listening.png
 
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#31
To me, when the on-axis is shelved to compensate for the constant power response, it inevitably sounds dull and details are lost. One might be fooled into thinking look how smooth and inoffensive this sounds, but really, it is because you've dialed down the HF response. So, for constant directivity designs, you really need a largish room or good amount of absorption, i.e., enough furniture and maybe strategically placed absorbers. Then it can sound sharp AND not bright. This is a tricky thing to balance, in my opinion, and it will vary room to room and from person to person.
 
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#34
Re ASR: Alan was banned ages ago. Erin got a pseudo ban and all links to his website were removed, the reason stated as he uses affiliate links and was gaining profit from amirs traffic. Erin, the nicest guy you could possibly imagine, eventually got his 'ban' revoked. Its all clearly excuses to stop risk of Amir being dethroned. Dont get me wrong, I like the guy, his videos and his community contribution, but he seems like the dictator of that site sometimes. I even think if he read this comment and figured out my handle over there he'd ban me for saying such. You should see what the cats over at superbestaudiofriends have to say about ASR. Why cant we all get along? We're all working towards the same goal.

Erin is still not allowed to post (afaik) his reviews to ASR. Someone else has to put the link up in a new thread. What the hell is up with that? The one forum thats completely objective based, and Erin cant post NFS reviews.

Now your saying the vituixCAD legend Kimmo is too? my goodness. So much for open scientific forum.

Kind of another reason I wish March all the best with the Sointuva, after the hand he got dealt over at ASR. However his DAC was a bit controversial, to be fair.
 
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#35
hifijim said:
Well apparently, Kimmo is (once again) a persona non grata at ASR...
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mainframe99 said:
Now your saying the vituixCAD legend Kimmo is too?
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Thanks for the updates guys.
mainframe99 said:
Erin got a pseudo ban and all links to his website were removed, the reason stated as he uses affiliate links and was gaining profit from amirs traffic. Erin, the nicest guy you could possibly imagine, eventually got his 'ban' revoked.
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mainframe99 said:
Erin is still not allowed to post (afaik) his reviews to ASR. Someone else has to put the link up in a new thread. What the hell is up with that? The one forum thats completely objective based, and Erin cant post NFS reviews.
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I thought Erin was part of the ASR conglomerate, ie that the Klippel rig was sponsored by them. Seems that was wrong then, but considering the awesome data he provides, the ability to link to affiliates to get something back towards the high cost of the gear he's purchased is fair and reasonable. Amir also gains a lot from the traffic Erin's reviews bring.
 
#38
A shame... the Directiva R2 is such an interesting project, but it is hard for me to follow it without an ASR member ID... and I am reluctant to sign up because I feel I would have to self-censure my opinion.

Going back to the March Sointuva - I recently added a future project to my list: a new head unit consisting of the PTT6.5M and the Satori TW29BNWG...

j.
 
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