After several months of testing I came up with remarkable results, the combination of the regulator and strategically distributed capacitors realized tonal balance that I wanted.
In the following:
Toroidal transformer for the digital section 2 x 12V 30W (Very big Impact to the sound).
Shotky 10BQ100, 1A, 100V for the digital part soldered on the bottom. ( Not big impact to the sound, more like fine-tuning noticeable improvement)
I used Fast Recovery Diode for (OP AMP and HDAM) in Sulzer Borbely super regulator, I try Schottky diodes and they sounded too pushy for me, somehow I did not like the sound of Schottky diodes in the analog part, while in the digital it was a big impact. Generally sound of BYV 27 diodes are pretty good treble are crystal, midrange are pleasant to listen, bass is deep and warm of course this depends of many things since the regulators type capacitors etc …
Add regs with (LM 317) (Big impact to the sound )
2 x Decoder,
1 x DAC Analog,
1 x DAC Digital,
1 x Processor,
1 x Servo.
Noticeable improvement after adding regulators:
Servo - tracking very fast and stable.
DAC and Decoder - When listening (Eva Cassidy live) scenes is dark, any instrument simply peaking from the speakers excellent definition and position of the instruments .
HDAM gives beautiful stamp and character of the sound so I decided to keep it. (Very Big impact to the sound)
HDAM module is returned and I found there are more dynamics and the more complete sound picture. Now music does not sound sterile also much better frequency response in the midrange end treble.
A lot of people on this forum is removed HDAM module and say that they have good results I think it's a subjective thing because it depends on the taste and the rest of the system or maybe people like to work to already well-established recipe.
Placed 22000uF/25V Panasonic TSUP capacitor prereg digital. (Big impact to sound)
(After replacing this capacitors sound is very smooth but the entire device must be well balanced, otherwise it can happen disappointment ) I have to mention that I was only a month ago was unthinkable that this capacitor leave because he dramatically changed the sound picture midrange and treble tones are lost, low frequency have been overemphasized. After the built-in power supply Sulzer Borbely for OP AMP and HDAM and careful selection of the capacitor sound image is balanced all standing in this place.
Sulzer Borbely power supply ( Very big impact to sound)
During testing of a new power supply I have found a big problem that I previously wrot, cd player was somehow blurred in in the upper part of the range. After much testing and playing with capacitors I finally found a combination that suited request Panasonic FC main capacitor after LM317 Nippon Chemicon ultra low ESR and output of the serial transistors Elna Tonerex. I exchanged a lot of brands I'll just some to name Elna cerafine, Elna Silmic II, Nichicon KW, Nichicon VX, Nippon Chemicon etc ..
I started with Elna Silmic II all was well but somehow I was not satisfied with the upper treble I have to say that Silmic II is not that luxurious at high frequencies at low frequencies Silmic is supreme. Panasonic FC is bright capacitor same can say for Elna tonerex following this combination all started to sound great and I stopped there.
Resistor and capacitor around operational amplifier (Not big impact, more like fine tuning)
Replacing resistors and capacitors around the operational amplifier I have not noticed much of a difference but I changed all resistors metal film with a 0.1% tolerance.
Output capacitors (Big impact to the sound)
The output capacitors are removed offset on both channels is below 20mV bass is precise and deeper has character.
OP AMProlling : (Very big impact to the sound)
Finally replacement op amps brings great changes but this would call to the fine tuning, because if you have a good environment, everything will sound good. It's pretty amazing three operational amplifiers which I tried sounded to me very well of course each in their own way I simply can not decide which sounds better. I never liked how LM 4562 sounds in my system I always somehow more like OPA 627 and now it is a different story. With great excitement I wait to arrive AD 825 and I hope that carries the best of both worlds.
I plan still much to do super regulators for DAC and another transformer in order to separate the display from audio power supply.
After all, besides I did see that in fact we listening "POWER SUPPLY"
Pictures are in high resolution in case that the images are too large just reload.
In the following:
Toroidal transformer for the digital section 2 x 12V 30W (Very big Impact to the sound).
Shotky 10BQ100, 1A, 100V for the digital part soldered on the bottom. ( Not big impact to the sound, more like fine-tuning noticeable improvement)
I used Fast Recovery Diode for (OP AMP and HDAM) in Sulzer Borbely super regulator, I try Schottky diodes and they sounded too pushy for me, somehow I did not like the sound of Schottky diodes in the analog part, while in the digital it was a big impact. Generally sound of BYV 27 diodes are pretty good treble are crystal, midrange are pleasant to listen, bass is deep and warm of course this depends of many things since the regulators type capacitors etc …
Add regs with (LM 317) (Big impact to the sound )
2 x Decoder,
1 x DAC Analog,
1 x DAC Digital,
1 x Processor,
1 x Servo.
Noticeable improvement after adding regulators:
Servo - tracking very fast and stable.
DAC and Decoder - When listening (Eva Cassidy live) scenes is dark, any instrument simply peaking from the speakers excellent definition and position of the instruments .
HDAM gives beautiful stamp and character of the sound so I decided to keep it. (Very Big impact to the sound)
HDAM module is returned and I found there are more dynamics and the more complete sound picture. Now music does not sound sterile also much better frequency response in the midrange end treble.
A lot of people on this forum is removed HDAM module and say that they have good results I think it's a subjective thing because it depends on the taste and the rest of the system or maybe people like to work to already well-established recipe.
Placed 22000uF/25V Panasonic TSUP capacitor prereg digital. (Big impact to sound)
(After replacing this capacitors sound is very smooth but the entire device must be well balanced, otherwise it can happen disappointment ) I have to mention that I was only a month ago was unthinkable that this capacitor leave because he dramatically changed the sound picture midrange and treble tones are lost, low frequency have been overemphasized. After the built-in power supply Sulzer Borbely for OP AMP and HDAM and careful selection of the capacitor sound image is balanced all standing in this place.
Sulzer Borbely power supply ( Very big impact to sound)
During testing of a new power supply I have found a big problem that I previously wrot, cd player was somehow blurred in in the upper part of the range. After much testing and playing with capacitors I finally found a combination that suited request Panasonic FC main capacitor after LM317 Nippon Chemicon ultra low ESR and output of the serial transistors Elna Tonerex. I exchanged a lot of brands I'll just some to name Elna cerafine, Elna Silmic II, Nichicon KW, Nichicon VX, Nippon Chemicon etc ..
I started with Elna Silmic II all was well but somehow I was not satisfied with the upper treble I have to say that Silmic II is not that luxurious at high frequencies at low frequencies Silmic is supreme. Panasonic FC is bright capacitor same can say for Elna tonerex following this combination all started to sound great and I stopped there.
Resistor and capacitor around operational amplifier (Not big impact, more like fine tuning)
Replacing resistors and capacitors around the operational amplifier I have not noticed much of a difference but I changed all resistors metal film with a 0.1% tolerance.
Output capacitors (Big impact to the sound)
The output capacitors are removed offset on both channels is below 20mV bass is precise and deeper has character.
OP AMProlling : (Very big impact to the sound)
Finally replacement op amps brings great changes but this would call to the fine tuning, because if you have a good environment, everything will sound good. It's pretty amazing three operational amplifiers which I tried sounded to me very well of course each in their own way I simply can not decide which sounds better. I never liked how LM 4562 sounds in my system I always somehow more like OPA 627 and now it is a different story. With great excitement I wait to arrive AD 825 and I hope that carries the best of both worlds.
I plan still much to do super regulators for DAC and another transformer in order to separate the display from audio power supply.
After all, besides I did see that in fact we listening "POWER SUPPLY"
Pictures are in high resolution in case that the images are too large just reload.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Theoretically yes, but in practice power supply working great, no oscillation everything is quiet.
I had same conclusion regarding HDAM. My biggest surprise was the bitumen damping sheets, and my biggest let down was the new clock and power supply. I wonder if it was implementation was wrong as I have had fantastic results in the past with clock upgrades.
HDAM has a big stamp on the sound, alright. In my experience, it can take a lot of work to regain lost ground in terms of enjoyment from removing them. I got there with LM4562HA and supporting mods. The most noticeable improvement was more realistic bass - maybe less compressed. Ray's DOS is an entirely different beast.
So why remove it? KI knows a thing or two about designing CD players. If it doesn't sound as good put it back in
I would have liked to hear Rays DOS, I expect that would be a match for the HDAM, from memory the response was flat, or more accurate. Its funny joining back in this thread, I was here years ago, now I use PC, no cd
Dacs are not as much fun as cd players when it comes to upgrades.
When in minimalistic approach mode - if the whole analogue output stage would be replaced by an audio transformer like discussed around here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/54009-marantz-cd63-cd67-mods-list-2042.html
then what would be the recommended and minimal values for the input and output impedances of the transformer (in the context of CD-6x)?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/54009-marantz-cd63-cd67-mods-list-2042.html
then what would be the recommended and minimal values for the input and output impedances of the transformer (in the context of CD-6x)?
I enjoyed reading this blog post about IC op-amps vs discrete circuitry:
Op-Amps versus Discrete Transistors
I only do this hobby for fun. I sometimes code in assembly language for fun as well, and are some striking similarities. Often, my lovingly hand-crafted assembly routine has worse performance than the C version when I measure it empirically.
Op-Amps versus Discrete Transistors
I only do this hobby for fun. I sometimes code in assembly language for fun as well, and are some striking similarities. Often, my lovingly hand-crafted assembly routine has worse performance than the C version when I measure it empirically.
CD Disc Spin Issues
Hi there,
Sorry to interrupt this thread but I have an issue I just cannot solve.
I have heavily modded many Marantz CD players. Currently I have a CD63, but the later version with SAA 7345GP/M5 decoder.
I convert all my CD's to Non Oversampling with separate TDA1541 DAC board using I2S lines from SAA 7345. This means connecting the clock signal directly to the SAA7345.
I have done this several times without issue. But with this revised board with the 10pF decoupling capacitor and other associated components around the "Cr-In" and "Cr-Out" pins of the SAA7345, I get the following behavoiur with the new clock fitted: Disc spins briefly clockwise for around 0.5 seconds then spins anticlockwise at normal CD speed for a few seconds before giving the "Disc" message on the display. No TOC displayed
In service mode P002 or P003 the disc spins correctly in the correct direction indefinitely. If I press "Play" in service mode the disc continues to spin and the TOC is listed. Pressing play again refuses to play any tracks and the disc spins forwards then revers at normal speed for a few seconds as before.
The clock (Tent Labs XO fed by PFM Flea) has always been connected AC coupled. I have changed clocks and changed VAM1202 unit for one from a working player. Always the same.
I unsoldered all the "additional" components around the SAA7345 Cr-In/Out from the board but this time the CD player behaved as if no clock is fitted (rapid spinning of disc motor). Replacing the components returned the above brief clockwise/anticlockwise spinning behaviour.
At all times the clock has been AC coupled (I do this with all my clocks).
Anyone have any ideas what is causing this clockwise/anticlockwise behaviour with no TOC registered?
Hi there,
Sorry to interrupt this thread but I have an issue I just cannot solve.
I have heavily modded many Marantz CD players. Currently I have a CD63, but the later version with SAA 7345GP/M5 decoder.
I convert all my CD's to Non Oversampling with separate TDA1541 DAC board using I2S lines from SAA 7345. This means connecting the clock signal directly to the SAA7345.
I have done this several times without issue. But with this revised board with the 10pF decoupling capacitor and other associated components around the "Cr-In" and "Cr-Out" pins of the SAA7345, I get the following behavoiur with the new clock fitted: Disc spins briefly clockwise for around 0.5 seconds then spins anticlockwise at normal CD speed for a few seconds before giving the "Disc" message on the display. No TOC displayed
In service mode P002 or P003 the disc spins correctly in the correct direction indefinitely. If I press "Play" in service mode the disc continues to spin and the TOC is listed. Pressing play again refuses to play any tracks and the disc spins forwards then revers at normal speed for a few seconds as before.
The clock (Tent Labs XO fed by PFM Flea) has always been connected AC coupled. I have changed clocks and changed VAM1202 unit for one from a working player. Always the same.
I unsoldered all the "additional" components around the SAA7345 Cr-In/Out from the board but this time the CD player behaved as if no clock is fitted (rapid spinning of disc motor). Replacing the components returned the above brief clockwise/anticlockwise spinning behaviour.
At all times the clock has been AC coupled (I do this with all my clocks).
Anyone have any ideas what is causing this clockwise/anticlockwise behaviour with no TOC registered?
I burned DAC moment no attention and I mistakenly turned positive and negative power supply for the analog part of the DAC (disaster). Now DAC heated and regulator LM317 voltage drop is perhaps around 200 mV about 4.75V and I noticed that it reflects to the servo will not to read the CD seems to spin counter-clockwise. Does anyone knows value voltage он pin SM 5872 because in service manuel doesn't exist. Almost everything was finished and in the meantime AD 825 arrived and CD player has finally started to sound impressive and then Murphy's Law. Seven months of effort falls into the water and this is no more than a brick, there is a possibility that the decoder damaged I can't forgive myself. By the way AD 825 is incredibly good op amp and very nicely fitted with a 5872 DAC.
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That's a big bummer. It looks like you fried your DAC chip. Most ICs don't survive a wrong polarity power supply. I don't think the decoder would be damaged because of this, if it is only the DAC's analog power that got reversed. Besides, there are just a few links between the DAC and decoder, and most of them have a 100 ohm series resistor that provides some protection.
How are your soldering skills? The DAC is SMD, but not too hard to desolder if you have a steady hand. The 5872 can be found in a cheapo donor-player or perhaps on e-Bay. Maybe you can get someone to do it for you if you're not confident about SMDs. If all else fails, you could even send me the board, I'd be happy to fix it for you.
Regards,
Ray
Hi John,
Yes, this configuration with the 10pF cap is used by Marantz for the mkII series players. Apparently the new decoder has some problems accepting the clock signal from the DAC. I recall doing mods to such player and I had similar issues...
I solved it by replacing the 10pF cap C521 by a 10nF ceramic, and then connecting the Flea to his cap. So only one 10nF in series, and not two caps. Also, I lowered the 390R resistor ('U193') to 75 or 100 ohm and I removed C522 and C523. You may have to experiment a bit, but I got it working!
Regards,
Ray
Thanks Ray,
I've played quite a bit with the components and removed everything around the Cr-in and Cr-out pins, and I've had coupling capacitor at 10pF, 1nF, 1.5nF and 10nF. For me nothing worked, and completely removing the components around Cr-in/out caused the disk to spin wildly as happens when the clock is un-recognised. Replacing the 1m resistor between Cr-in/out stopped the wild spinning but the clockwise for half a second then anticlockwise behaviour returned.
Anyway I'll go through what you said and try it again.
Cheers
John