Tried a open baffle once with my mangers. Simple construction and quite ugly looking but the sound was amazing.
Setup:
Mangers - open baffle
Active crossover - crossed at 120Hz
Focal Audiom subwoofer.
Audion Silver night - for the mangers
250W mosfet mono amp - for the sub
Next thing on my agenda is trying to combine 2 OB subs using double 12" SLS drivers and the mangers in either closed triangular box or open baffle.
Regards // Mattias S
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Setup:
Mangers - open baffle
Active crossover - crossed at 120Hz
Focal Audiom subwoofer.
Audion Silver night - for the mangers
250W mosfet mono amp - for the sub
Next thing on my agenda is trying to combine 2 OB subs using double 12" SLS drivers and the mangers in either closed triangular box or open baffle.
Regards // Mattias S
Hennie: Yes, I can imagine that OB solutions regarding Manger drivers posted on the net is scarse at best. Couldnt find much either.
A simple project would be to copy the phoenix OB ( linkwitz construction ). Not optimal by any means but easy to build. Made a schematic using 18mm plywood. I could sent it to you if you wish. Im thinking of building it to test if it will suffice. At least then i can listen to my mangers....they´ve been resting in a box far to long.
Perhaps we can share som thoughts and ideas via e-mail ?
Regards // Mattias S
A simple project would be to copy the phoenix OB ( linkwitz construction ). Not optimal by any means but easy to build. Made a schematic using 18mm plywood. I could sent it to you if you wish. Im thinking of building it to test if it will suffice. At least then i can listen to my mangers....they´ve been resting in a box far to long.
Perhaps we can share som thoughts and ideas via e-mail ?
Regards // Mattias S
Mattias,
I too am very interested in the results of a Manger OB scheme... Ideally I'd cross to a stereo W type woof/subwoof at around 150Hz. (I'd go for H subwoof but would never get the size of the thing past the wife...)
I have 4 Eminence Beta15s lying around doing nothing...
The Manger seems to pose three hurdles:
a) smoothing response below @1kHz using side firing drivers (that makes the scheme too expensive)?
b) mechanical noise from the back of the driver?
c) sound too thin, lacking in volume???
Given your past experience, any insight? Cheers
I too am very interested in the results of a Manger OB scheme... Ideally I'd cross to a stereo W type woof/subwoof at around 150Hz. (I'd go for H subwoof but would never get the size of the thing past the wife...)
I have 4 Eminence Beta15s lying around doing nothing...
The Manger seems to pose three hurdles:
a) smoothing response below @1kHz using side firing drivers (that makes the scheme too expensive)?
b) mechanical noise from the back of the driver?
c) sound too thin, lacking in volume???
Given your past experience, any insight? Cheers
If you want to use the Mangers as OB, you're going to have to cross at a higher frequency.
I would say that below 800hz, the bass is going to start falling at 6db/decade for open air.
The sounds that I heard through the front of the manger was when the diapragm has to move long excursions.
OB means more excursion below:
343/2/pi/diameter of bafflle_holding_the_Manger_in_meters Hz.
I think you'll need a rather large baffle to get usable bass down 150hz.
Might be sensible to use a very high order filter.
One other though. Why not put a inverse parabola 'acoustic lense' behind the driver to give you some nice ambient HF - i haven't thought it though, but I guess it would reduce the effect of beaming,.
Tuckshop.
I would say that below 800hz, the bass is going to start falling at 6db/decade for open air.
The sounds that I heard through the front of the manger was when the diapragm has to move long excursions.
OB means more excursion below:
343/2/pi/diameter of bafflle_holding_the_Manger_in_meters Hz.
I think you'll need a rather large baffle to get usable bass down 150hz.
Might be sensible to use a very high order filter.
One other though. Why not put a inverse parabola 'acoustic lense' behind the driver to give you some nice ambient HF - i haven't thought it though, but I guess it would reduce the effect of beaming,.
Tuckshop.
Yes, the there are problems. However I´ve tried the mangers in the OB pictured below without any aid of a subwoofer driven by a 300B SE amp. Dont know if its the drivers high qts or the fact that i used a low powered tube amp but the output was sufficient for decent listening levels. No excesive cone excursions or mechanical noise as far as i could hear or see.
But. When i tried the same ( during the test with the sub and crossed at 120Hz ) the cone excursion was rather large when i cranked up the level. Bare in mind that the room i was playing in had the area of about 3 livingrooms and was damped to some extent ( a rented room for receptions and such ) so the volume had to be much higher then normal.
Edit: Oh i forgot. No mechanical noise was detected by me or the the others that where listening.
Conclusion ? well none at the moment since i havent tried combining sub, active crossover and mangers in OB in my own livingroom hence nothing concrete as of yet. But hey, what diy without some experimenting ?
Regards // Mattias S
But. When i tried the same ( during the test with the sub and crossed at 120Hz ) the cone excursion was rather large when i cranked up the level. Bare in mind that the room i was playing in had the area of about 3 livingrooms and was damped to some extent ( a rented room for receptions and such ) so the volume had to be much higher then normal.
Edit: Oh i forgot. No mechanical noise was detected by me or the the others that where listening.
Conclusion ? well none at the moment since i havent tried combining sub, active crossover and mangers in OB in my own livingroom hence nothing concrete as of yet. But hey, what diy without some experimenting ?
Regards // Mattias S
Yes, I have read that that the driver has high Qts (thats one of the reasons they recommended large volumes when you enclose them).
The sound I heard is when the output > 112db ie loud (with my first pair)
Sounds like a flap sound or bedsprings when you sit on the bed. Maybe this was because both the Mangers got duist inside .. or because their innards had already corroded from the hash environment they were playing in (the wood that I was using had not dried out on the inside!)
Maybe its the way the THD comes into play when to volume gets cranked up to silly levels. It is very strange, but you end up turning the volume up really high ... because it doesn't sound very loud.
Its only when you have to start shouting that it hits you.
[The crossover from my fathers DIY speakers got so hot during a party in the UK that it exploded and fired right through the diapragm. Luckily It was caught by the grill ... I do seem to have habit of pushing things to their breaking point.]
Listening to my latest pair of Mangers ... I haven't heard any mechanical sounds yet - and the bed moved across the room in the closing scences of Heat - ie it felt like the planes were landing in my appartment block.
I don't think its something you need to worry about!
Have Fun,
Tuckshop
The sound I heard is when the output > 112db ie loud (with my first pair)
Sounds like a flap sound or bedsprings when you sit on the bed. Maybe this was because both the Mangers got duist inside .. or because their innards had already corroded from the hash environment they were playing in (the wood that I was using had not dried out on the inside!)
Maybe its the way the THD comes into play when to volume gets cranked up to silly levels. It is very strange, but you end up turning the volume up really high ... because it doesn't sound very loud.
Its only when you have to start shouting that it hits you.
[The crossover from my fathers DIY speakers got so hot during a party in the UK that it exploded and fired right through the diapragm. Luckily It was caught by the grill ... I do seem to have habit of pushing things to their breaking point.]
Listening to my latest pair of Mangers ... I haven't heard any mechanical sounds yet - and the bed moved across the room in the closing scences of Heat - ie it felt like the planes were landing in my appartment block.
I don't think its something you need to worry about!
Have Fun,
Tuckshop
aj_newman: I´m actually impressed that you managed to destroy your mangers but regarding to thier cost I can imagine it sucked big time.
Gregm:
a) Not a option for me. My drivers where second hand and thus relativly cheap ( a matter of opinion. my friends think im nuts ). I cant afford another pair since i have other projects that needs to be funded.
b) Nothing i could detect when i tried it in my OB:s pictured above. My plans are to add stuffing and cloth to the phoenix clones. Dont know if it will make any difference.
c) OB fullrange = thin and bright as espected ( decent though with 300B amp. Unbearable with Rega cursa & maia ). With a woofer, a lot better.
Regards // Mattias S
Gregm:
a) Not a option for me. My drivers where second hand and thus relativly cheap ( a matter of opinion. my friends think im nuts ). I cant afford another pair since i have other projects that needs to be funded.
b) Nothing i could detect when i tried it in my OB:s pictured above. My plans are to add stuffing and cloth to the phoenix clones. Dont know if it will make any difference.
c) OB fullrange = thin and bright as espected ( decent though with 300B amp. Unbearable with Rega cursa & maia ). With a woofer, a lot better.
Regards // Mattias S
Small progress report. Finished glueing my "phoenix" baffles. They consist only of front, top, bottom & sides in 19mm MDF. Going to copy the stands described on Linkwitz page.
As for the bassbaffles. Got a pair of "promethius" ( i think they are called that. Klang+Ton project ) testbaffles that i have left from a other project. Going to use one of them to test how the baffles integrate with eachother. If it work, H-baffles next.
Regards // Mattias S
As for the bassbaffles. Got a pair of "promethius" ( i think they are called that. Klang+Ton project ) testbaffles that i have left from a other project. Going to use one of them to test how the baffles integrate with eachother. If it work, H-baffles next.
Regards // Mattias S
I readed all your posts about Manger drive unit, so i have a simple question. What is the bes enclosure type for this driver. I contact Daniela and she told me that rear of this driver must be in closed box of some 10L becouse that volume is ideal to control the drivers membrane. So i am thinking of closed TL enclosure. What do think about that?? TL - Transmission line
TL - Transmission lineThere are two points.
Ideal volume and ideal shape.
The volume will determine how 'springy' the air is behind the driver. Right now the Manger is quite springy .. use a small volume (say <10 litres) and the membrane will ring a little bit more.
Use a larger volume (say >15 litres) and the spring force isn't enough at low frequencies ... ie the LF effiiciency is reduced.
Now imagine you have a box behind the drive unit. Inside the box if you have a flat wall, then a wave front that hits the box will reflect (echo) off the inside and eventually leak through the front of the driver.
If you make the shortest distance > 10cm, then the first refection will happen after the sound can travel 20cms. The brain uses the first soundwave to create the stereo image, if the second wavefront hits too soon and is still focused, you end of 'tuning' it out of your head. That can give you a bit of fatigue.
The optimum shape is the an inverse trumpet shape filled with progressively dense material on the inside (ie no internal reflection). On the outside, you want to try and reduce the beaming effect....
Ideal volume and ideal shape.
The volume will determine how 'springy' the air is behind the driver. Right now the Manger is quite springy .. use a small volume (say <10 litres) and the membrane will ring a little bit more.
Use a larger volume (say >15 litres) and the spring force isn't enough at low frequencies ... ie the LF effiiciency is reduced.
Now imagine you have a box behind the drive unit. Inside the box if you have a flat wall, then a wave front that hits the box will reflect (echo) off the inside and eventually leak through the front of the driver.
If you make the shortest distance > 10cm, then the first refection will happen after the sound can travel 20cms. The brain uses the first soundwave to create the stereo image, if the second wavefront hits too soon and is still focused, you end of 'tuning' it out of your head. That can give you a bit of fatigue.
The optimum shape is the an inverse trumpet shape filled with progressively dense material on the inside (ie no internal reflection). On the outside, you want to try and reduce the beaming effect....
Marco Rutz TML
>One attempt of building something like a TML (more like a special reflex enclosure IMO) is the one by Marco Rutz. He once had the building plans on the web but I can't find them anymore.
http://home.tiscalinet.ch/cooltune/Projects/Menhir01.htm
Patrick
>One attempt of building something like a TML (more like a special reflex enclosure IMO) is the one by Marco Rutz. He once had the building plans on the web but I can't find them anymore.
http://home.tiscalinet.ch/cooltune/Projects/Menhir01.htm
Patrick
phase_accurate said:
I loaded Mangers in the J-Low rear loaded horns and got the
attached curve. To flatten the response and get the low
frequency excursion down, I high-passed it at 100 Hz, and
here you see two curves, with and without the high pass.
The bottom was pretty credible down to 60 Hz, and was fairly
similar to the 8 inch Fostex drivers. It played loud, but
appreciated a subwoofer.
