Yep, the little play I've had with WinISD so far, putting in new drivers looked like a job for the work experience boy 😉
Mail me then I can reply to you with the info.
If you click 'report this post to a moderator' on my previous post that should do the trick. You can't report your own posts.
Mail me then I can reply to you with the info.
If you click 'report this post to a moderator' on my previous post that should do the trick. You can't report your own posts.
though I'd add my tuppence worth :
This thread doesn't make coherent sense to me.
Designing a monitor based on bass performance
for use with a subwoofer is totally pointless.
Baffle step must be considered unless its a nearfield monitor.
IMO the AP210G6 in a sealed box is just about perfect for the
job, bass boost is not required, in a 15L box response is ideal
for blending with a subwoofer at around 60Hz, or lower.
(room gain and placement are major factors)
Sensitivity of 92dB/W is pretty much as good as your likely to get.
I'd be very surprised if the midrange of any PA driver could
compete with the Audax, and my experience of Audax 8's
is that they can take a fair hammering.
🙂 sreten
This thread doesn't make coherent sense to me.
Designing a monitor based on bass performance
for use with a subwoofer is totally pointless.
Baffle step must be considered unless its a nearfield monitor.
IMO the AP210G6 in a sealed box is just about perfect for the
job, bass boost is not required, in a 15L box response is ideal
for blending with a subwoofer at around 60Hz, or lower.
(room gain and placement are major factors)
Sensitivity of 92dB/W is pretty much as good as your likely to get.
I'd be very surprised if the midrange of any PA driver could
compete with the Audax, and my experience of Audax 8's
is that they can take a fair hammering.
🙂 sreten
All involved:
you seem to have written the Audax 8" units of, but at the end of the day, there's only about 5Hz between the -3dB points. You "could" equalise the extra 2dB sensitity from the G6 unit to shift its -3dB point about 5Hz lower!
does anybody actually know what they sound like?
does the relatively high inductance of the Audax units really matter if you are driving them actively? as most/some of you seem to be doing.
you seem to have written the Audax 8" units of, but at the end of the day, there's only about 5Hz between the -3dB points. You "could" equalise the extra 2dB sensitity from the G6 unit to shift its -3dB point about 5Hz lower!
does anybody actually know what they sound like?
does the relatively high inductance of the Audax units really matter if you are driving them actively? as most/some of you seem to be doing.
I used the term monitor loosely, more to define my application as a DJ monitor.
I agree with you sreten on the use with a sub and I won't be using a sub, but matttcattt seems to like his bass...
As we are going to be active, baffle step can be done at line level, so we can consider that later down the road. In my application they will be nearfield, but I will include the facility to set BSC in case of other applications.
The AP210G6 in a sealed 12 L box is not suitable for my application; I'm looking to hit 50 Hz. My own experience (admittedly possibly more limited than yours) of Audax 8 inch units is that whilst they can take a fair hammering, they don't put cut it in the chest-pumping department like some similar units I have heard.
As for the inductance, maybe it's not such an issue, but upon comparing different units, if one has lower inductance and other things being equal...
I agree with you sreten on the use with a sub and I won't be using a sub, but matttcattt seems to like his bass...
As we are going to be active, baffle step can be done at line level, so we can consider that later down the road. In my application they will be nearfield, but I will include the facility to set BSC in case of other applications.
The AP210G6 in a sealed 12 L box is not suitable for my application; I'm looking to hit 50 Hz. My own experience (admittedly possibly more limited than yours) of Audax 8 inch units is that whilst they can take a fair hammering, they don't put cut it in the chest-pumping department like some similar units I have heard.
As for the inductance, maybe it's not such an issue, but upon comparing different units, if one has lower inductance and other things being equal...
Sorry all: i missed the bit about the sub!
Woofers with lower Xmax sound better is an article i found which may be of interest to you all.
My personal favorite sounding woofer is an 8" with an Xmax of only 4mm. The Volt BM220.8 (just as an example, it's not quite in the same price range!)
Woofers with lower Xmax sound better is an article i found which may be of interest to you all.
My personal favorite sounding woofer is an 8" with an Xmax of only 4mm. The Volt BM220.8 (just as an example, it's not quite in the same price range!)
richie00boy said:
I have e-mailed you, ill try again. :s
The thread seems a bit wierd cut in half but not much has been lost from either the new or old threads.
[edit]: I dont want to order from BK Electronics when I can get free postage from Maplin. I also like the 70W rating of the AP210Z0, so im going to do some more simulations of this driver.
Sorry about the double post.
Two things:
1. Reading several posts in different threads, I dont think the e-mail service is working 🙁 so I dont think you will get my message.
my e-mail, if you havent already got it is: matttcattt@yahoo.co.uk
2. I wonder when the AP210Z0 will be reduced at maplin... 😀 Hopefully it is reduced before they remove it from their already narrow range. 🙁
Two things:
1. Reading several posts in different threads, I dont think the e-mail service is working 🙁 so I dont think you will get my message.
my e-mail, if you havent already got it is: matttcattt@yahoo.co.uk
2. I wonder when the AP210Z0 will be reduced at maplin... 😀 Hopefully it is reduced before they remove it from their already narrow range. 🙁
richie00boy said:
Sans subwoofer things are quite different, and "loud"
loudspeakers have severely taken the MTM route so
your going to be stuck for a suitable "hifi" driver, for
a single driver "pro" units are probably your only choice.
what box volume ballpark are we talking about ?
P.S. inductance is fairly irrelevant.
🙂 sreten.
Looking at 18-25 litres, sealed or ported.
matttcattt, here is an 8 inch driver to play with:
Model=Forte 8
Fs=39 Hz
Qes=0.868
Qms=5.5
Qts=0.75
Vas=62 litres
Xmax=5 mm
Sd=0.139 m^2
Re=7.3
Cms=2.26E-5
Rms=32.80977
Mms=0.7364
BL=6.1
P=75 W RMS
It will be a high-Q box, but this can be made nice with a Linkwitz Transform.
matttcattt, here is an 8 inch driver to play with:
Model=Forte 8
Fs=39 Hz
Qes=0.868
Qms=5.5
Qts=0.75
Vas=62 litres
Xmax=5 mm
Sd=0.139 m^2
Re=7.3
Cms=2.26E-5
Rms=32.80977
Mms=0.7364
BL=6.1
P=75 W RMS
It will be a high-Q box, but this can be made nice with a Linkwitz Transform.
Surely the point is the ideal driver for the
two separate applications is different ?
And why this thread seems inconsistent ?
🙂 sreten.
two separate applications is different ?
And why this thread seems inconsistent ?
🙂 sreten.
Have to throw another one into the mix - Seas c21rex. High 93db sensitivity, will work in the required volume, nice smooth response , great price - what more could you want!
richie00boy said:
I think high-Q is an understatement. (1.3!) I want to keep these simple, so I dont want to use the Linkwitz Transform or any other EQ.
sreten said:
Yes, but the projects are similar, just slightly different goals.
The thread was seperated from the AP100Z0 thread, so it starts a bit weirdly.
Matttcattt said:
Well IMO very different goals in terms of the type of driver required.
The Audax drivers will be fine for your application whilst RB
has rejected them. You can use the Z0 or G6, the G6 with
its higher sensitivity actually gives more output than the
higher power handling Z0, but again either will be fine.
🙂 sreten.
sreten said:
I am almost definatly going with the G6, just saving up the money now, hoping they reduce the price. Does anyone think they will?
sreten said:
having a look at the specs on these two drivers it seems the ZO only has power handling to recomend it. On the negative side: The MLSSA plot shows some nasties starting at circa 2KHz, the sub 100Hz bass response varies off axis and the VAS is higher, meaning a larger sized closed box would be required.
Anyone want to show me what i've missed and why the more expensive Aerogel driver might be better ?(assuming power handling is not a consideration). Or more to the point, any indicators that would suggest the ZO would sound better than the G6?
Cheers Mark
p.s. i'm looking for something to goto circa 600Hz to mate with this mid driver, all active.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I haven't been able to access diyAudio for the past few days, it seemed to be down.
Maybe our applications aren't really that different. I don't want to be able to support club levels, just parties with a very small, domestic PA. I get the impression Matt likes it loud and bassy.
The G6 is cheap and will cope with a smaller box better, but the Z0 has the potential for deeper bass with a larger box. I think the G6 would be good to use with a high-Q high-pass filter to achieve slightly extended response. I'm still a bit concerned about the poor Xmax of this driver though.
edit: Closed box size is dependent on Vas but also on Qts. If the G6 and Z0 Vas were identical, the Z0 would still require a larger box for the same Qtc.
Maybe our applications aren't really that different. I don't want to be able to support club levels, just parties with a very small, domestic PA. I get the impression Matt likes it loud and bassy.
The G6 is cheap and will cope with a smaller box better, but the Z0 has the potential for deeper bass with a larger box. I think the G6 would be good to use with a high-Q high-pass filter to achieve slightly extended response. I'm still a bit concerned about the poor Xmax of this driver though.
edit: Closed box size is dependent on Vas but also on Qts. If the G6 and Z0 Vas were identical, the Z0 would still require a larger box for the same Qtc.
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