Hey, I think we can maybe come up with something here 🙂 I'm looking into a 2-way based on an 8 or 10 inch main unit for DJ monitoring. I am about to buy a pair of TW034XO for the tweeters. I had a quick look BK a while ago, but with several projects on the go I never dug very deep for this application.
I really wouldn't push the TW034X0 as far down as 1k, especially if you are to be playing it at high SPL. A quick rule of thumb is that you should cross over no lower than double Fs, so 1.6k in this case.
I really wouldn't push the TW034X0 as far down as 1k, especially if you are to be playing it at high SPL. A quick rule of thumb is that you should cross over no lower than double Fs, so 1.6k in this case.
richie00boy said:
Cool, after my subwoofer I think this will make a nice project, and with your help it might be good. 😀
My pair would be to replace my crappy current mains. The tweeter is dead in one and going in the other.
richie00boy said:
This was the sort of advice I was hoping for by posting my ideas. 😀 What crossover point would you suggest? ~3kHz seems popular.
I’m thinking mostly medium SPL. My amplifier is supposedly 35W RMS per channel so I think the 70W rating on the TW034X0 will be ok. I’ve never managed to get the volume past ~1/5th of the way round, and this is deafening to listen to. Not knowing the sensitivity of my mains, I cannot gage the SPL, so I don’t know what "high" is.
[edit]: When writing a message, it is so hard to get back into programming mode and check the coding. 😛
Just wondering why you need 10 inchers in what I assume is your bedroom. You could get nicer sound with smaller drive units and, as you already have a sub the deep stuff isn't a problem.
Alternatively, you could make a pair of 10 inchers and ditch the sub.
Of course, you could be like me and like a big, projecting soundstage, and I find that the larger drive units seem to do that better.
If I were you I would like to experiment with crossover frequencies to find the best choice. I find that moving it up the range (to maybe 4-5k) brings the vocals out into the room, but at the expense of off-axis response and risk of harshness from breakup. You need to choose the drive unit well in this application.
Are you able to scavenge any of those chip amps you had and then you could build an active system? Active makes it much faster, easier and cheaper to experiment.
Alternatively, you could make a pair of 10 inchers and ditch the sub.
Of course, you could be like me and like a big, projecting soundstage, and I find that the larger drive units seem to do that better.
If I were you I would like to experiment with crossover frequencies to find the best choice. I find that moving it up the range (to maybe 4-5k) brings the vocals out into the room, but at the expense of off-axis response and risk of harshness from breakup. You need to choose the drive unit well in this application.
Are you able to scavenge any of those chip amps you had and then you could build an active system? Active makes it much faster, easier and cheaper to experiment.
richie00boy said:
I dont NEED 10 "inchers" but the Delta 10 gave a nice response curve compared to the 8 "inchers" sold by maplin. I will look at the BK Electronic speakers tomorrow morning, before my maths exam. 😛
I dont know about soundstage, but im a basshead so i want as much bass as possible without it sounding horrible. Also, with a larger driver, the LF cutoff point is lower, so I can cross it over with the sub lower.
Yes, I am going active, or at least making a load of active line lever crossovers as they will be cheaper than high level ones. This way I can also make them variable, as you suggested and ajust it until I like it.
What driver would you suggest? Are you definatly going with the AP210Z0?
I would look at speakers smaller than 10 inch if I were you, especially if you have a decent sub.
My comment earlier about crossing over at 4-5k is obviously dependent on the main drive unit. This would be too high for a 10 inch unit, but OK for a 5 inch unit. I'd say no more than 3k for a 10 inch unit.
With a larger drive unit the F3 point is usually lower (not always), but the box requirements are also scaled up.
I'm glad you are going active, it makes things a lot easier.
As I mentioned in a recent post in this thread, the Audax 8 inch units are not up to much and I am looking into alternatives. I would stay away from PA type drive units as they usually have poor specs in relation to hi-fi use, i.e. high Fs.
My comment earlier about crossing over at 4-5k is obviously dependent on the main drive unit. This would be too high for a 10 inch unit, but OK for a 5 inch unit. I'd say no more than 3k for a 10 inch unit.
With a larger drive unit the F3 point is usually lower (not always), but the box requirements are also scaled up.
I'm glad you are going active, it makes things a lot easier.
As I mentioned in a recent post in this thread, the Audax 8 inch units are not up to much and I am looking into alternatives. I would stay away from PA type drive units as they usually have poor specs in relation to hi-fi use, i.e. high Fs.
You're being a bit unfair to say the Audax AP210Z0 units aren't up to much. They have a low FS but also a very low Qtc, so the bass rolls off quite early in a sealed box, but as the slope is slow, it will tolerate bass boost without getting to sound uncontrolled.
I would rather have a low Qt woofer with an electronic amplitude compensation network in place of a high Qtc woofer any day.
I would rather have a low Qt woofer with an electronic amplitude compensation network in place of a high Qtc woofer any day.
richie00boy said:
Ok, ill have a look at some other drivers. Im modeling the BK Electronic drivers now.
Maybe I am, I imagine if high SPL is not a major goal then a very nice sounding speaker can be made. The 3 key Thiele/Small parameters are spot on for a nice design, but the small Xmax limits it's application. Adding boost only compounds this matter.
And what about a high Qtc woofer with an electronic compensation network to flatten/damp response, thereby lowering power requirements 😎
I hope your exam went well.
Nice work with the modelling 🙂
It would be useful to see more of the roll-off area of the results though, this would provide clues to performance as well as making the curves much easier to follow.
You can discount any of the solutions with a tuning frequency higher than 60Hz. This is too high for a woofer, and with the larger diameter drive units (8 inch or more) the vent diameter will need to be quite large to avoid noises.
20 litre box size with an 8 or 10 incher is a good one to aim for for my application, so if you are happy with that then that's great.
Nice work with the modelling 🙂
It would be useful to see more of the roll-off area of the results though, this would provide clues to performance as well as making the curves much easier to follow.
You can discount any of the solutions with a tuning frequency higher than 60Hz. This is too high for a woofer, and with the larger diameter drive units (8 inch or more) the vent diameter will need to be quite large to avoid noises.
20 litre box size with an 8 or 10 incher is a good one to aim for for my application, so if you are happy with that then that's great.
Unfortunately a high Qt woofer, with an external network between the pre-amp and the power-amp to mofify its frequency response (to emulate that of a lower Qt unit) doesn't sound anything like using a lower Q woofer in the first place. (It still has underdamped bass, just less of it!)
Now if you used a high Qt woofer, with an amp with a negative output impedance so that it genuinely lowered the Q of the woofer, it's a different matter. (And yes, I have tried it, using a Richard Allan LP8B woofer which has a Qt of 0.74).
Now if you used a high Qt woofer, with an amp with a negative output impedance so that it genuinely lowered the Q of the woofer, it's a different matter. (And yes, I have tried it, using a Richard Allan LP8B woofer which has a Qt of 0.74).
When I talk of electronic EQ I mean full EQ of amplitude, phase and transient response, i.e. Linkwitz Transform. This allows a high Q woofer to sound exactly the same as a low Q one. Sorry for not making that clear, you are right that pure amplitude correction is not optimal.
However, I did also have in mind the -ve output impedance type of EQ, which also has the advantage of lowering distortion, according to one article I read. I'm not sure that the Linkwitz Transform offers lowered distortion.
However, I did also have in mind the -ve output impedance type of EQ, which also has the advantage of lowering distortion, according to one article I read. I'm not sure that the Linkwitz Transform offers lowered distortion.
SimontY said:
Thanks. It was fine.
richie00boy said:
Yep, easy exam.
Will do.
I didnt think about port size, I will take this into account.
Yep, 20L is fine for me. I like large speakers. 😀
20 litres is actually a compact box for an 8 or 10 incher... Large speakers are like the 65 litre 3-ways 😀 I have had in the pipeline for ages, and why I initially bought the AP100Z0 (for midrange).
richie00boy said:
Surely it would create more if you are lowering F3 because you make the amp work harder and the speaker move more.
richie00boy said:
Tell me about it 65 litre box out of double thickness 18mm MDF is not a small speaker. I went with the XLS and EQ to make my bass box smaller.
Ok the main choices seem to be the Audax AP210Z0 and AP210G6, The Alcone 6.5 HE from BK Electronics and the Eminence Alpha 8, for under £30 each.
Looking at port sizes, the Alcone is ok, but the AP210Z0 tuned to 22Hz is totally unfeasable. see fig.3.
Looking at port sizes, the Alcone is ok, but the AP210Z0 tuned to 22Hz is totally unfeasable. see fig.3.
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Nice work, you have been busy 😎
Just to remind you 😉 I won't be bothering with them, you go ahead if you want.
I have the data for an 8 inch and a couple of 10 inchers, but am still waiting to hear back on another 8 incher. All nice and budget prices, too 🙂 If you want the details to play with, mail me. I haven't learnt WinISD yet, certainly not putting new drivers in anyway, and I have a some PCBs to make...
Moderator: Please can you move post 392 and onwards to a new topic in Loudspeakers. Subject: Loud budget monitor (UK)
Just to remind you 😉 I won't be bothering with them, you go ahead if you want.
I have the data for an 8 inch and a couple of 10 inchers, but am still waiting to hear back on another 8 incher. All nice and budget prices, too 🙂 If you want the details to play with, mail me. I haven't learnt WinISD yet, certainly not putting new drivers in anyway, and I have a some PCBs to make...
Moderator: Please can you move post 392 and onwards to a new topic in Loudspeakers. Subject: Loud budget monitor (UK)
richie00boy said:Nice work, you have been busy 😎
Just to remind you 😉 I won't be bothering with them, you go ahead if you want.
I have the data for an 8 inch and a couple of 10 inchers, but am still waiting to hear back on another 8 incher. All nice and budget prices, too 🙂 If you want the details to play with, mail me. I haven't learnt WinISD yet, certainly not putting new drivers in anyway, and I have a some PCBs to make...
Thanks, didnt take long. Putting new drivers in takes ages though...
Oh.
Yes please, or do you want me to mail you to get my email?
Good thinking.
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