FlipC said:
I look forward to seeing your design. I'm looking to keep the size below around 300L, preferably around 250 or so for a dual 12" TH. I can do that with the Ciare and hit an F3 (e.g. -3 dB down) at around 32 Hz, but at 250L, the output is only around 125-127 dB at xmax. At 300+L, it is possible to make the mouth larger and achieve a bit more max output.
djk said:
Faital 12HP1020
-- 700W, Fs=55Hz, Mms=86g, BL=24.3, Hvc=23mm, Hg=12mm
-- Al coil, right Fs and low Mms, lacking in Xmax
-- Xmax=5.5mm linear, +Hg/4=8.5mm, +Hg/3=9.5mm
Ciare 12.00SW
-- 1000W, Fs=43Hz, Mms=137g, BL=25.3, Hvc=33mm, Hg=10mm
-- Cu coil, fs is low, mms is high, good Xmax
-- Xmax=11.5mm linear, +Hg/4=14mm, +Hg/3=14.8mm
Here's another suggestion:
P.audio FL-12LF
-- 800W, Fs=55Hz, Mms=101g, BL=26.1, Hvc=26mm, Hg=10mm
-- Al coil, right Fs and Mms, better Xmax than the 12HP1020
-- Xmax=8mm linear, +Hg/4=10.5mm, +Hg/3=11.3mm
Don't know price or supplier though...
Ian
Don Snyder said:
Don:
That really depends on the bass guitar and how it's eq'd. Years ago, I wrote an FFT program (MicFFT) for DOS and used to spend hours while in grad school looking at the FFT responses of various things, including my Fender P-bass. You are certainly correct that some settings would leave very little fundamental on the E-string. Around that time, I changed out the stock pickups to active EMGs and noted a significant increase in the fundamental level (~ 42Hz). Later, I purchased a 5 string Spector, also with active pickups. Here, the B string kicks out roughly equivalent 31 Hz as it does the first harmonic at 62Hz.
You are correct in that most of what folks hear with bass guitar is harmonics. Actually, they hear the "missing fundamental" from the harmonics, which is why most bass amps are typically efficient only down to around 50-60Hz or so, and yet people can still clearly make out that it's the low E string and not the octave higher. But, when one hears well-recorded bass guitar played on high end equipment, the fundamental (esp. on the B-string) can be quite impressive. That's what I'm aiming for.
djk said:
Maybe, but with the race to produce good-looking Xmax figures manufacturers are getting more optimistic (B&C, Faital Pro...) and using Xmax/3 -- this is why the 12HP1020 is quoted as 9.5mm.
BMS are one of the few still using "linear Xmax" (Hvc-Hg) which is essimistic but well understood.
Ian
hi Craig - thats a strong B - here's a bass to get
http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/20613767/aview/1237622086756_DSC_0035.JPG
http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/20613767/aview/1237622086756_DSC_0035.JPG
Hi Craig, Freddi
What with 20+ frets forcing the pickup below the 1/4 string length position, and the pickups rolling off, and the speakers
rolling off, and, of course, our ears rolling off, it's a miracle we even notice the E1, much less the B0.
Thanks for the input on the active EMGs, I was going to try bridge mounted piezos next, but I'll consider the EMGs.
I did a double fold version of Cowan's 30 Hz TH sometime back. I just found out that it caught on in Germany (using a Beyma
driver). I think it would be a good bass cabinet.
What with 20+ frets forcing the pickup below the 1/4 string length position, and the pickups rolling off, and the speakers
rolling off, and, of course, our ears rolling off, it's a miracle we even notice the E1, much less the B0.
Thanks for the input on the active EMGs, I was going to try bridge mounted piezos next, but I'll consider the EMGs.
I did a double fold version of Cowan's 30 Hz TH sometime back. I just found out that it caught on in Germany (using a Beyma
driver). I think it would be a good bass cabinet.
Attachments
JLH said:
I agree 100%, but AFAIK nobody does this.
The "Hvc/2-Hg/4" (addition of Hg/4 to linear Xmax) figure seemed to have been accepted as a best-guess fit to the 10% distortion point, and at least if *everybody* used this we'd be comparing drivers on a like-for-like basis.
Whether the manufacturers adding Hg/3 are doing this to make their specs look better or because it is a better fit to the 10% distortion point is anybody's guess, I know where my suspicions lie...
Ian
Hi. I need some advice. And probably help.
We need to fill a 25x15x5m hall with bass. I don't thing there is need for extreme output but a little headroom is good.
This will be a permanent installation and two TH will be fitted on the long side wall right above the tops. So size is not that important as long as it don't stick out of the wall too much. Around 80cm is the limit I think but smaller is better. I'm not sure about height yet but it should be enough for a single fold. 170-200cm should fit. Width is no limit other then sensible and material.
I have a really good deal on Beyma drives. 18G40 and 18P80Nd but I can probably get good price on other models if I ask nicely.
15" is an option but is it enough with two?
40Hz as low extension is a requirement. I don't thing we will need to go lower. And as high as possible up in frequency. 100Hz will probably be fine i hope. The tops are not of highest quality and they lack any punch at all, thus the bass requirement. Any TH will probably outdo then in SPL but it't good to have headroom if they are upgraded.
I have already simulated a TH and built it for home use. Worked fine.
But I don't have any experience when it comes to live sound. I don't even know how many dB is needed.
I will hopefully have access to real carpenters(?) to help out with the build.
The hall will be used for aerobics and that sort of stuff. And probably some more. So no concert levels but I hope there will be some headroom.
We need to fill a 25x15x5m hall with bass. I don't thing there is need for extreme output but a little headroom is good.
This will be a permanent installation and two TH will be fitted on the long side wall right above the tops. So size is not that important as long as it don't stick out of the wall too much. Around 80cm is the limit I think but smaller is better. I'm not sure about height yet but it should be enough for a single fold. 170-200cm should fit. Width is no limit other then sensible and material.
I have a really good deal on Beyma drives. 18G40 and 18P80Nd but I can probably get good price on other models if I ask nicely.
15" is an option but is it enough with two?
40Hz as low extension is a requirement. I don't thing we will need to go lower. And as high as possible up in frequency. 100Hz will probably be fine i hope. The tops are not of highest quality and they lack any punch at all, thus the bass requirement. Any TH will probably outdo then in SPL but it't good to have headroom if they are upgraded.
I have already simulated a TH and built it for home use. Worked fine.
But I don't have any experience when it comes to live sound. I don't even know how many dB is needed.
I will hopefully have access to real carpenters(?) to help out with the build.
The hall will be used for aerobics and that sort of stuff. And probably some more. So no concert levels but I hope there will be some headroom.
