Could I suggest a format that we can all review like in my thread on how to measure for polar maps http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/261616-measurement-technology.html#post4049952
Hi and sorry to jump in with a kind question maybe a little OT
What about the sound quality of the passive version of the Behringer 2031 ?
I think the comparison could be even more appropriate because the Orion are passive
Same amp two different pair of speakers ... it sounds intriguing
Thanks a lot. Regards, gino
What about the sound quality of the passive version of the Behringer 2031 ?
I think the comparison could be even more appropriate because the Orion are passive
Same amp two different pair of speakers ... it sounds intriguing
Thanks a lot. Regards, gino
The Orion has an active three way crossover with each driver using a separate power amplifier channel.
Hi and thanks a lot for the information
So the comparison is perfectly legitimate
Kind regards, gino
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I started with these 2031 years ago. I replaced all the drivers with something else.
Almost primordial. Perhaps we will have sorted it all out in the blog by 2031. We know how unusual numbers sometimes pop up telling us something. I feel sad that anyone should drive to equalise Linkwitz Orion with a simple cleverly designed passive cross over in the 2031 that does work. The simpler the better. I see too many HiFi components where they are a mass of LCR and solid state ic and other devices used as scaffold to produce a PCB that can costs the earth. This process of large complex designs rationalising down to small and usually simpler designs is of course a well known process. And it happened with the B2031 but not necessarily to everyones liking.2031 years ago ? Were the drivers made of stone ?
2031 years ago ? Were the drivers made of stone ?
Papyrus and bronze of course. ;-)
Hi and thanks and yes ... looking at the speakers MRSP the drivers used must be unbelievably cheap. And maybe their quality cannot be that high.
They are not Scanspeak i mean.
But could it be that even so so drivers in a right design can give a remarkable performance ?
Anyway, do you have a link to the project you mention ?
I have a pair of these speakers waiting to be destroyed
The nice thing is that i see them selling for 150 USD/pair when 2nd hand (the active ones i mean)
Unbelievable ...
Thanks a lot, gino
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Hi and thanks and yes ... looking at the speakers MRSP the drivers used must be unbelievably cheap. And maybe their quality cannot be that high.
They are not Scanspeak i mean.
But could it be that even so so drivers in a right design can give a remarkable performance ?
Anyway, do you have a link to the project you mention ?
I have a pair of these speakers waiting to be destroyed
The nice thing is that i see them selling for 150 USD/pair when 2nd hand (the active ones i mean)
Unbelievable ...
Thanks a lot, gino
Look at Zaphs old website. the choice of Seas or Scanspeak 6 1/2" or 8" mid paper or Al with tweeter silk or al dome on a board tried out just stuck onto the outside of the driverless speaker unit until it needs to be fixed properly if you do your own enclosure stuff. It is so much down to personal taste, but SEAS tweeters at around $50 and mid at $110 can make a very good small speaker. I personally like the SEAS Al drivers. The Behringer are quite well made andare certainly good value. It may be possible to tweek them. I would not bother and I wanted to try the classic DIY SEAS units. Linkwitz uses them to good effect on one of his recent
recent designs since Orion.
I do agree too that in the right set up almost any speaker will sound good.
Never been daunted by very costly drivers which become a serious investment. Just good well reported cheaper ones.
These can be sat on an independent base unit TQWT whatever underneath for a full range sytem.
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And the Flintstones had this kind of record players!
I want one of these !
You can even chat with the tone arm !
And the Flintstones had this kind of record players!
Those are called Linsungdactyl's for their fancy linear tracking foot movement. Very rare and quite esoteric for the Primean. Musta cost Fred a small fortune, but does have high WAF... Wilma Approval Factor, where the term originated.
Beethoven Plugin
On the topic of Beethoven I came up with an idea for a VST sound plugin to simulate the way Beethoven would actually hear his own pieces.
The main part is basically a noise gate with an age slider so you can adjust your ears to block out the soft parts more and more as he gets older. The 5th would be much different if he can't even hear the soft parts for instance.
Also i think almost every recording is out of tune so you need a pitch shift to re-tune all the recordings to the Vienna tuning fork which we no longer use - i forget but i think we are all sharp now from tuning to a computer instead of a tuning fork which gave no regards to the tuning of the spheres. When composers went to other towns back then the A would be different from their towns A, so the composer would have to transpose. I really haven't figured out a way to fix the shitty musicians and their overuse of vibrato yet though.
One time i asked Gedlee why speakers with drastically different polar responses get the same subjective review of heightened realism and great imaging. Something like a beaming controlled directivity vs dipole vs near omni. I like his answer back then. Paraphrase - The crossover can not be mediocre like they were in the past.
There can not be a bump in the directivity in the crossover region which will make a perceptual bump in the response as well as make a sort of spiking when you move your head around. The easiest way i have found to test for this in my system is to run uncorrelated pink noise into the stereo pair or my quadraphonic-stereophony set up. Then move my head forward and back. The sound should sound like a waterfall - as natural as possible. With no weird phasy spiking sounds when you move your head around.
I think Linkwitz was originally trying to beat the Quad electrostat with traditional drivers. Quad themselves did this a while back and came out with a small 2 way Active bass reflex with a sock on the inside of the port. This was later used in Wharfedale's Active studio monitor Diamond 8.2 active and 8.1 active. The stated goal of the Quad speaker was to beat the electrostat with traditional drivers. The goal of the Diamonds was to find what would work in the normal home. But they are basically the same speaker with active bi-amped current dumping amps. I think if you get a good set they have the imaging but maybe not the volume or rms of Gedlee or other speakers. Ged and Behringer as well as other show-pro speakers may beat them if i had to guess without listening.
On the topic of Beethoven I came up with an idea for a VST sound plugin to simulate the way Beethoven would actually hear his own pieces.
The main part is basically a noise gate with an age slider so you can adjust your ears to block out the soft parts more and more as he gets older. The 5th would be much different if he can't even hear the soft parts for instance.
Also i think almost every recording is out of tune so you need a pitch shift to re-tune all the recordings to the Vienna tuning fork which we no longer use - i forget but i think we are all sharp now from tuning to a computer instead of a tuning fork which gave no regards to the tuning of the spheres. When composers went to other towns back then the A would be different from their towns A, so the composer would have to transpose. I really haven't figured out a way to fix the shitty musicians and their overuse of vibrato yet though.
One time i asked Gedlee why speakers with drastically different polar responses get the same subjective review of heightened realism and great imaging. Something like a beaming controlled directivity vs dipole vs near omni. I like his answer back then. Paraphrase - The crossover can not be mediocre like they were in the past.
There can not be a bump in the directivity in the crossover region which will make a perceptual bump in the response as well as make a sort of spiking when you move your head around. The easiest way i have found to test for this in my system is to run uncorrelated pink noise into the stereo pair or my quadraphonic-stereophony set up. Then move my head forward and back. The sound should sound like a waterfall - as natural as possible. With no weird phasy spiking sounds when you move your head around.
I think Linkwitz was originally trying to beat the Quad electrostat with traditional drivers. Quad themselves did this a while back and came out with a small 2 way Active bass reflex with a sock on the inside of the port. This was later used in Wharfedale's Active studio monitor Diamond 8.2 active and 8.1 active. The stated goal of the Quad speaker was to beat the electrostat with traditional drivers. The goal of the Diamonds was to find what would work in the normal home. But they are basically the same speaker with active bi-amped current dumping amps. I think if you get a good set they have the imaging but maybe not the volume or rms of Gedlee or other speakers. Ged and Behringer as well as other show-pro speakers may beat them if i had to guess without listening.
I figured that much but i was considering maybe the opposite as well - that he could turn off the soft parts. My music theory teacher told us Beethoven's tell - how to spot him without knowing it was him composing. Really loud parts and really soft parts - wide dynamic range. So i started to wonder if maybe he did this on purpose so he could only hear the loud parts and he didn't have to listen to the soft parts. I never tried it but i think the 5th would be sort of funny if you could only hear the loud parts.
I find correlated pink noise even more revealing, in that if everything is functioning perfectly, the virtual image is a narrow slit source down the center line. Any flaws in frequency response matching for any reason will result in a lateral smear at the frequency in question. This could result either from on axis or off axis response anomalies and asymmetry of dispersion.
lol, the inventor of the speaker that beat Linkwitz and Behringer really REALLY doesn't like the Beolab 90:
B&O Tech: Introducing the BeoLab 90 Concept – earfluff and eyecandy
(he's the dude in the comments)
B&O Tech: Introducing the BeoLab 90 Concept – earfluff and eyecandy
(he's the dude in the comments)