Linkwitz Orions beaten by Behringer.... what!!?

Greebster

Greebster

Member
Joined 2010
gedlee said:
Not in the least bit surprising to me. Have you ever seen a blind wine tasting? Same thing.
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Wasn't the last blind taste test done in 1973 (?) out in California. All the "Professional Certified" World Acclaimed tasters picked Cali wines over french for the first time. After that fiasco Napa wines made their place among the best and testing of this type was banned from there on.
 
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dumptruck

Member
Joined 2010
Greebster said:
Wasn't the last blind taste test done in 1973 (?)
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Nope! I don't want to get into details because really it's not at all analogous to speakers except the tests where you manufacture a bias like the mcdonald's thing, which, well, yeah... people. Anyway, there are loads and loads and loads of wine tests since 1973 for you to look up if that's your thing.
 
mondogenerator

mondogenerator

Member
Joined 2009
To me, all these tests show is that the measurement cannot detect significant differences between each speaker.

As many are fond of pointing out, the room and setup dominates all. Throw a award winning speaker in a bathroom, and itll sound....like its in a bathroom.

Pretty pointless test.
 
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boldname

Member
Joined 2011
Patrick Bateman said:
This video is for Earl Geddes:

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qa6QXBxxWw

Basically shows how you can get "experts" to reach a conclusion that's completely invalid, by simply presenting (or marketing it) properly.
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Hi Patrick

You are a good moderator. It has to be that we bring people back to the realities. Seasoned audiophiles from a technical background make for good debates. The Behringer cannot be the best as it was never intended to be. It was designed to do a job and not be an audiophile speaker.
 
vacuphile

vacuphile

Member
Joined 2011
boldname said:
The Behringer cannot be the best as it was never intended to be. It was designed to do a job and not be an audiophile speaker.
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It can't be an audiophile speaker because the brand name and the looks are wrong. As far as the measured performance is concerned, there are speakers costing many times more that are worse.

What it does show is that good engineering is key, and that quality drivers do not have to break the bank.
 
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boldname

Member
Joined 2011
vacuphile said:
It can't be an audiophile speaker because the brand name and the looks are wrong. As far as the measured performance is concerned, there are speakers costing many times more that are worse.

What it does show is that good engineering is key, and that quality drivers do not have to break the bank.
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The term measured peformance is not a measure of audio quality. I can elaborate but clearly there is no point.
 
gedlee

gedlee

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Joined 2004
gedlee.com
boldname said:
The term measured peformance is not a measure of audio quality.
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Good polar response is a necessary but not sufficient condition for determining audio quality. There are other aspects, like dynamics and maxSPL that are not captured, but polar response is a big step in the right direction. The room and setup also play a significant role.
 
chris661

chris661

Member
Joined 2008
jmsent said:
Baloney. Maybe a knockoff, but not a tweeter made by SEAS.
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The Behringer tweeter certainly looks and measures similar to this Seas tweeter, right down to the small plastic disc on the inside of the mesh.

Zaph's measurements below (do a Ctrl+F for Behringer)
zaph|audio

I don't know that its definitely a Seas tweeter, but the performance really isn't far off. If you've anything that proves for sure that the Behringer tweeter isn't made by Seas, I'd be interested to see.

Chris
 
vacuphile

vacuphile

Member
Joined 2011
boldname said:
The term measured peformance is not a measure of audio quality. I can elaborate but clearly there is no point.
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It depends on what you measure and how capable you are in doing it, but yes, measured performance is directly related to audio quality. I would be very much interested in you clarifying your position, after all, I have been wrong before, and I am willing to yield to good fact based arguments.
 
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jmsent

Member
Joined 2006
chris661 said:
The Behringer tweeter certainly looks and measures similar to this Seas tweeter, right down to the small plastic disc on the inside of the mesh.
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It measures "similar" to the SEAS in that they're both tweeters with metal domes. The SEAS has a free air resonance of 750 Hz where the Behringer is at over 2 kHz. The response curves are also quite different, especially at the low end where the SEAS extends further down by at least an octave.
SEAS is not, and never has been, a supplier to low cost OEM's. They manufacture only in Norway and their driver prices are way out of line with anything Behringer makes. Given the cost of shipping and import into China alone, a SEAS tweeter would make up a huge percentage of the overall BOM cost of the product. I highly doubt the Behringer tweeter costs more than a couple of dollars. A SEAS H1213 landed in China would be well over $20. My guess is that whoever does the turnkey manufacturing for Behringer in China also builds the drivers for them. That's been the trend for the larger OEM's for years now. Finally, just in case you still don't believe me, I happen to work for SEAS, and know for an absolute fact it's not a SEAS tweeter.
 
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gedlee

gedlee

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Joined 2004
gedlee.com
Behringer has their own (huge!) factory in Guangzhou, China, they generally do not use turnkey contract manufacturing. Whether or not this specific part is made in-house or out, is unknown (by me). And exactly what difference does it make who's brand name is on the parts. It is the end result that matters.
 
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jmsent

Member
Joined 2006
gedlee said:
Behringer has their own (huge!) factory in Guangzhou, China, they generally do not use turnkey contract manufacturing. Whether or not this specific part is made in-house or out, is unknown (by me). And exactly what difference does it make who's brand name is on the parts. It is the end result that matters.
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Did I state anywhere that I thought it did make a difference? :confused: Please don't put words in my mouth. Regardless, my only point in posting still stands: it's not a SEAS part.
 
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