Yes, common drain Tokin amps sound great. As mentioned, the high end has clarity that common source cannot match. I think that contributes to the stereo imaging.
For warm weather a choke loaded common drain Tokin amp dissipates much less heat - 50 percent or less. It's good to have an amplifier for every season.🙂
If a bit more voltage input is needed, Nelson's DIY FE 2022 is great. I use it in my system as a preamp since all of my common drain amps have no front end.. Since it has very low distortion with second harmonic dominating, it contributes a bit more to the high end clarity with no negative effect.
For warm weather a choke loaded common drain Tokin amp dissipates much less heat - 50 percent or less. It's good to have an amplifier for every season.🙂
If a bit more voltage input is needed, Nelson's DIY FE 2022 is great. I use it in my system as a preamp since all of my common drain amps have no front end.. Since it has very low distortion with second harmonic dominating, it contributes a bit more to the high end clarity with no negative effect.
Yes, there are many possibilities to add a bit of voltage gain. The nice thing with Iron Pre as linestage is that PSU is "onboard" and comes as a kit.
I also have a BA3-pre which I could modify to just be a linestage. I also have 2018 linestage which needs a PSU (have it as stuffed PCB only).
Using RCA output from DAC I will need about 8-12 dB of gain and with balanced out about 4-6 dB.
I also have Whammy which I could go in and bypass the vol. control to make it behave as a linestage. It has Burson V6 opamps.
Set of voltage gain in this amp is easy to adjust to what I need. To begin with I could just use it with vol. control all the way up.
I guess Iron Pre will be very "silent".
I also have a BA3-pre which I could modify to just be a linestage. I also have 2018 linestage which needs a PSU (have it as stuffed PCB only).
Using RCA output from DAC I will need about 8-12 dB of gain and with balanced out about 4-6 dB.
I also have Whammy which I could go in and bypass the vol. control to make it behave as a linestage. It has Burson V6 opamps.
Set of voltage gain in this amp is easy to adjust to what I need. To begin with I could just use it with vol. control all the way up.
I guess Iron Pre will be very "silent".
I experimented with different pre-amps (Starving Student II, BA3-pre, B1 Korg).
Funny enough B1 Korg was the best sounding combination. BA3-pre the worst (adjusted to min. distortion).
When I turn up the volumen using B1 it feels as "potent" as BA3-pre but those are very different amps. I remember from MoFo that also there the Korg was the preferred pre-amp.
The last faint buzz from SMPS cases after damping with bitumen disappeared when I also placed the cases behind the "sound panels" as picture shows (SMPS's generates very little heat so they can take to be a bit "isolated").
Now when a string fades out......it fades out in total "darkness" and not into a faint buzz. Very nice.......
No electrical noise from speakers either.
Think I have a very nice implementation of B1 Korg. It is the amp in "full alu jacket" on picture. Internal damped with bitumen. It is "non-microphonic". Also some extra SMPS filtering in the box. The final voltage for Korg is still correct.
A very nice listening experience. I played many kinds of music. Stereo imaging very good. Good depth. Also I remembered to reverse speaker phase on power amps when switching to Korg.
I wonder if Iron Pre can make it better than this? ......we will see.......think I am about no. 100 on the list right now.......
Only the listener require a bit of water cooling.....about 2 liter of cold water pr. hour. The about 500W of electrical heat......constant......is enough to heat 26-30 m2 room to quite hot after 2-3 hours of "burning amps"......
I now know one reason more to have oversized air condition systems "over there"........reason it not only to have fireplace burning during a hot summer day 🙂
I only use cold water.......
Funny enough B1 Korg was the best sounding combination. BA3-pre the worst (adjusted to min. distortion).
When I turn up the volumen using B1 it feels as "potent" as BA3-pre but those are very different amps. I remember from MoFo that also there the Korg was the preferred pre-amp.
The last faint buzz from SMPS cases after damping with bitumen disappeared when I also placed the cases behind the "sound panels" as picture shows (SMPS's generates very little heat so they can take to be a bit "isolated").
Now when a string fades out......it fades out in total "darkness" and not into a faint buzz. Very nice.......
No electrical noise from speakers either.
Think I have a very nice implementation of B1 Korg. It is the amp in "full alu jacket" on picture. Internal damped with bitumen. It is "non-microphonic". Also some extra SMPS filtering in the box. The final voltage for Korg is still correct.
A very nice listening experience. I played many kinds of music. Stereo imaging very good. Good depth. Also I remembered to reverse speaker phase on power amps when switching to Korg.
I wonder if Iron Pre can make it better than this? ......we will see.......think I am about no. 100 on the list right now.......
Only the listener require a bit of water cooling.....about 2 liter of cold water pr. hour. The about 500W of electrical heat......constant......is enough to heat 26-30 m2 room to quite hot after 2-3 hours of "burning amps"......
I now know one reason more to have oversized air condition systems "over there"........reason it not only to have fireplace burning during a hot summer day 🙂
I only use cold water.......
Attachments
taking everything else what you wrote in account, not likely
obviously your ears and brain need some elevated THD, 2nd dominant , as what you're getting with B1K
Iron Pre is not giving you that
I never made any measurements of Iron Pre per se but, speaking of SE - one can expect nothing else than what is already known for complementary JFet buffer with addition of some slight 3rd (autoformer).... and that is certainly of lesser overall level than B1K
I never saw measurements of B1T - Pa didn't started official production and I didn't bother him for gigglywigglies
all that - counting that you have your B1K set as it seems natural for me, for that construction - 2nd dominant, not nulled; otherwise, I don't see any reason for building bloody thing
in all these years, I'm on the verge of despising it, from same reason I'm despising decaf while I'm still able to enjoy proper coffee
Decaf I have never used but I put a bit of milk in the coffee to "round" it a bit. Maybe this is like adding 2nd harmonic.
When I very rarely drink coke it is always the classic version. The other artificial stuff taste like s......
You are probably right about 2nd harmonic as I also like SE tube amps like 300B etc.
I will probably try out Iron Pre. I liked the Edcor in both M2X and VFET amp. You say those add 3rd harmonic......
My BA3-pre uses some linear PSU based on toriods. I could hear a little bit of mechanical hum from those.
I have found out that I need complete silence when there are no signal to the amp. Then for Iron Pre I need very silent toriods (if those exists).
Maybe I should look for other types of transformers than toriods.
B1T is the transformer variant?
When I very rarely drink coke it is always the classic version. The other artificial stuff taste like s......
You are probably right about 2nd harmonic as I also like SE tube amps like 300B etc.
I will probably try out Iron Pre. I liked the Edcor in both M2X and VFET amp. You say those add 3rd harmonic......
My BA3-pre uses some linear PSU based on toriods. I could hear a little bit of mechanical hum from those.
I have found out that I need complete silence when there are no signal to the amp. Then for Iron Pre I need very silent toriods (if those exists).
Maybe I should look for other types of transformers than toriods.
B1T is the transformer variant?
B1T is practically predecessor of Iron Pre SE
Pa made handful of those, with Jensen iron in it and, as far as I know, gave them all
my dear (bloody bstrd) Variac have one, given as bribe to drive ZM outa SR before making some permanent damage, back in 2019
why it didn't go in official production - dunno, Papa's are most mysterious ways .......
now - mains xformers for Iron - if you want them in same case, using toroids is best bet - especially if you can find those having both magnetic and static shields
if you opt to put them in outer case, with umbilical, feel free to use biggest badass most humming ones you already have in drawers
Pa made handful of those, with Jensen iron in it and, as far as I know, gave them all
my dear (bloody bstrd) Variac have one, given as bribe to drive ZM outa SR before making some permanent damage, back in 2019
why it didn't go in official production - dunno, Papa's are most mysterious ways .......
now - mains xformers for Iron - if you want them in same case, using toroids is best bet - especially if you can find those having both magnetic and static shields
if you opt to put them in outer case, with umbilical, feel free to use biggest badass most humming ones you already have in drawers
I will probably look for the best Toroidy can offer.
I wonder what gives less chance for mechanical hum......the smallest......VA as less a possible.....that just does the job or a slightly "oversized" or much "oversized" transformer?
A small one will have more resistance so less current in primary and then maybe less chance for mechanical hum?
I have not yet concentrated of voltage and VA for the Iron Pre toroid.
I wonder what gives less chance for mechanical hum......the smallest......VA as less a possible.....that just does the job or a slightly "oversized" or much "oversized" transformer?
A small one will have more resistance so less current in primary and then maybe less chance for mechanical hum?
I have not yet concentrated of voltage and VA for the Iron Pre toroid.
you have Donut info on each schematic of Iron Pre
no need to go wild with VA, what I wrote is enough and no benefits of bigger (due to nature of regs used), just headache
no need to go wild with VA, what I wrote is enough and no benefits of bigger (due to nature of regs used), just headache
This one maybe in 2x18V configuration:
https://sklep.toroidy.pl/en_US/p/TT...grade-transformer-TSAS20VA-voltage-to-50V/373
https://sklep.toroidy.pl/en_US/p/TT...grade-transformer-TSAS20VA-voltage-to-50V/373
I have some 2x18V Toroidy transformer on the way.......with all kind of shields.
In the meantime I have more listening impression using B1 Korg with "Lazy Bush".
Everything that could sound just a little bit harsh before (e.g. with VFET kit amp connected directly to my DAC in preamp mode) sounds with no trace of "harshness". A good example is this harpsicord CD:
https://imusic.dk/music/0709861305810/rinaldo-alessandrini-2021-bach-klavierwerke-cd
Before I could listen to few tracks. It is a very good recording. Now I can listen to the whole CD (available from Tidal in CD-quality).
It is quite a challenge to be able to do this........listen and enjoy the whole CD.....
I think the B1K makes acoustical instruments sound a little better than they do in real life......especially when B1K is connected to a "follower amp".
Another example is this CD:
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8173856--benjamin-grosvenor-homages
A friend reported that with DAC + VFET that the sound was a little bit on the "metallic side". This is totally gone now.
Instruments still sounds "realistic". There are a lot of "room information".
"Thin recordings" like vintage Beatles and Doors gets some more "body" to the sound.
In the meantime I have more listening impression using B1 Korg with "Lazy Bush".
Everything that could sound just a little bit harsh before (e.g. with VFET kit amp connected directly to my DAC in preamp mode) sounds with no trace of "harshness". A good example is this harpsicord CD:
https://imusic.dk/music/0709861305810/rinaldo-alessandrini-2021-bach-klavierwerke-cd
Before I could listen to few tracks. It is a very good recording. Now I can listen to the whole CD (available from Tidal in CD-quality).
It is quite a challenge to be able to do this........listen and enjoy the whole CD.....
I think the B1K makes acoustical instruments sound a little better than they do in real life......especially when B1K is connected to a "follower amp".
Another example is this CD:
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8173856--benjamin-grosvenor-homages
A friend reported that with DAC + VFET that the sound was a little bit on the "metallic side". This is totally gone now.
Instruments still sounds "realistic". There are a lot of "room information".
"Thin recordings" like vintage Beatles and Doors gets some more "body" to the sound.
Yes, I am very happy with my setup 🙂
I am surprised how loud B1K can drive the "Lazy Bush".
My setup is very silent. I smile every time I read threads with people have various hum/buzz problems 🙂
I can't hear any trace of that even with ear very close to speaker units 😎
A very "black" background. I am sure that contributes to the excellent room definition and transparency of speakers.
I need by 1m long interconnects back. A friend have them in the moment. I am using some cheap standard thin IC's which comes with commercial amplifiers. I am mostly worried by the connectors which are not the best. But so far.....so good. I am not worried about the cable. Many use those thin shielded cables as internal wiring in amps. I also think if you did a test of the cable it will have perfect flat response up to 1 MHz......or higher.
I am surprised how loud B1K can drive the "Lazy Bush".
My setup is very silent. I smile every time I read threads with people have various hum/buzz problems 🙂
I can't hear any trace of that even with ear very close to speaker units 😎
A very "black" background. I am sure that contributes to the excellent room definition and transparency of speakers.
I need by 1m long interconnects back. A friend have them in the moment. I am using some cheap standard thin IC's which comes with commercial amplifiers. I am mostly worried by the connectors which are not the best. But so far.....so good. I am not worried about the cable. Many use those thin shielded cables as internal wiring in amps. I also think if you did a test of the cable it will have perfect flat response up to 1 MHz......or higher.
I will report if there is a sound difference when I get my RCA interconnects back with twist lock RCA connectors and double shielded cable and with printed direction arrows. The wires also have some clamped-on ferrite cores to reduce RF noise.......so those cables may not be flat to 1 MHz......
My nice 0.75m Supra interconnects are just on the short side now SIT amps are placed on the floor.
My nice 0.75m Supra interconnects are just on the short side now SIT amps are placed on the floor.