Just checked, and it certainly seems that way, and I'm not really suprised. Wherelse can you get a, (dare I say improved? 😉 ) version of such a classic amp for so little money?
pinkmouse said:
From my experience, I am not convinced that DIY is any cheaper than buying the item commercially or used. Unless of couse you have spent a lot of time accumulating parts from discount sources. In fact, I'd say you spend about 150% making your own.
However, that's not to say one's own souped up version is not more satisifying...
Agree with Lgreen. When it comes to amplifiers, a well made DIY amp is not cheap.... perhaps there are better financial returns in DIY speakers.
However for me, the ability to twaek the amp is half the fun. I have a few $200 power amps in which I invested another $200 to get aheftier power supply....
Diminishing returns ..... yes ofcourse.
However for me, the ability to twaek the amp is half the fun. I have a few $200 power amps in which I invested another $200 to get aheftier power supply....
Diminishing returns ..... yes ofcourse.
But to use this project as an example. So far i've got everything exept chassi and transistors. Some parts are surplus and some new but the total price this far is about 320$. A factorymade Krell KSA-50 mkII is currently avaiable here in the far north, the price is about 1370$.
But this project is rather special since it's a clone and probably don't exacly fall under the category Igreen and K-amps refer to.
Anyway, this is a lot cheaper and WAY more fun 😀
problem is, no value for resale
a lot of people buy by name.
Krell KSA-50S Power Amplifier $3,200.00 secound hand in sydney at present
building it myself will still be cheaper and if not as good as i remember, i can still use a variety of parts for the next idea
also i get to blow up something on the way😀
allan
a lot of people buy by name.
Krell KSA-50S Power Amplifier $3,200.00 secound hand in sydney at present
building it myself will still be cheaper and if not as good as i remember, i can still use a variety of parts for the next idea
also i get to blow up something on the way😀
allan
I'm still waiting for the fabled "blue smoke" myself.
But yes, no 2ndhand value exept if your friends know that you build them well and are willing to give you what the parts costed or somewhere around it.. I usualy give them away for a symbolic sum or disect them for parts and sell transformers etc.
In the States used KSA-50s go for about 800-1K or more so DIY is alot cheaper. If you have parts made up by other companies like Front Panel Express, or you pay some machine shop to fabricate a chassis then its not really considered an all DIY sort of thing since you didn't do it all. This is what drives the final price up. So far I have not spent more than 400.00 building any piece of DIY and that price was per Aleph 2 monoblock. That was a huge cost savings over buying a used pair for in the 3000.00 range....... a savings of 2200.00 and this pair is way over built!
Mark
Mark
Lets assume you ran your Klone for a few years and then went on to something else, from a purely financial perspective, buying and reselling a Krell would be cheaper than making your own and trashing it because of the resale value attached with a factory product...
In comparing apples to apples (finished Krell vs. Finished Klone i.e. Chassis and all, you will see the difference is not a lot. However if you add the value of your time, the DIY Klone is much more pricey.... labor is added to the Krell but not to the DIY hence my argument on comparing apples to apples.
Now KSA-50's can be had for $650-700 on eBay. If you added a nice chassis, you'd be right up there even without the labor. Then if you subtracted the resale value of both products, the KSA-50 would be so much cheaper....
So many ways to look at the same thing.
Last word, I don't know about you guys, but I try not to justify my DIY work as being cheaper, I do it for fun and because I am in control of what "I" want. 😉
In comparing apples to apples (finished Krell vs. Finished Klone i.e. Chassis and all, you will see the difference is not a lot. However if you add the value of your time, the DIY Klone is much more pricey.... labor is added to the Krell but not to the DIY hence my argument on comparing apples to apples.
Now KSA-50's can be had for $650-700 on eBay. If you added a nice chassis, you'd be right up there even without the labor. Then if you subtracted the resale value of both products, the KSA-50 would be so much cheaper....
So many ways to look at the same thing.
Last word, I don't know about you guys, but I try not to justify my DIY work as being cheaper, I do it for fun and because I am in control of what "I" want. 😉
I do DIY projects to make things I want, I got a second hand pair of Pinkmouses' boards because I had never scratchbuilt an amp before (plenty of repairs though) and also fancied a nice Class A amp for home, or possibly the car, Yes I'm considering the mother of all switchmode PSUs to make a 'KarKrellKlone' but would ideally like to get nearer 100W from it (while looking for info on the differences between 50s and 100s I came upon this site, nice schematics http://home.ca.inter.net/~lloyd.maclean/Krell/Krell.htm). DIY is rarely ever cheaper if youconsider your time is worth anything, if you class you time as fun and learning then DIY looks much more reasonable.
I'm with K-Amps.
But as for what Mark said-
What about using someone else's PCBS to implement the circuitry like we all have done? Edit- all except maybe 2 or 3 of us.
But as for what Mark said-
What about using someone else's PCBS to implement the circuitry like we all have done? Edit- all except maybe 2 or 3 of us.
Puggie said:
That's an awful lot of heatsinking! Pinkmouse's boards only allow for the drivers and output to be sinked, what are the extra sinks on the original?
Terry or anyone,
Do you have schematics for the Toroids that Antek (on eBay) sells?
John (Antek) told me that the red/black make up the primaries but on the secs, he has 4 blue and 4 green wires (all same gauge, same color), how do I figure out the dual secs I need?
I got one like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7540258796&sspagename=ADME:B:AAQ:US:1
I hate to do high current load testing on the toroid to figure it out... John said he'd send a schematic a week ago, I though I'd ask you if you knew the color coding (well in this case how would it help with 4 blue and 4 green wires all together!!!)
Do you have schematics for the Toroids that Antek (on eBay) sells?
John (Antek) told me that the red/black make up the primaries but on the secs, he has 4 blue and 4 green wires (all same gauge, same color), how do I figure out the dual secs I need?
I got one like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7540258796&sspagename=ADME:B:AAQ:US:1
I hate to do high current load testing on the toroid to figure it out... John said he'd send a schematic a week ago, I though I'd ask you if you knew the color coding (well in this case how would it help with 4 blue and 4 green wires all together!!!)
Mine have 2 reds, 2 blacks, 2 greens, and 2 blues.
The secondaries are "dual secondaries" one green, one blue.
One of each color has a black heat shrink at the base. That should be the grounded or "reverse phase" lead.
But then according to some, it doesn't matter if one coil is "in phase" and one is out.. I think it is Naim that uses them that way...
EDIT:
ACK yours has quad secondaries. Then Ohm them out.. the lower resistance should be 12V IF they were wound with the same guage wire.
The secondaries are "dual secondaries" one green, one blue.
One of each color has a black heat shrink at the base. That should be the grounded or "reverse phase" lead.
But then according to some, it doesn't matter if one coil is "in phase" and one is out.. I think it is Naim that uses them that way...
EDIT:
ACK yours has quad secondaries. Then Ohm them out.. the lower resistance should be 12V IF they were wound with the same guage wire.
Thanks Troy.
Mine 2 red, 2 blacks, 2 hispanics, 2 Asians, 4 Veggies and 4 R&B's
ok no Hispanics and Asians, the veggies are green and the Rythms are blues....
Was I clear as mud?
Jokes aside, my issue is also around the phasing... John mentioned some black sleeves, however there are none.... just Quad secondaries.... same color gauge. 4 greens and 4 blues.
Mine 2 red, 2 blacks, 2 hispanics, 2 Asians, 4 Veggies and 4 R&B's
ok no Hispanics and Asians, the veggies are green and the Rythms are blues....
Was I clear as mud?
Jokes aside, my issue is also around the phasing... John mentioned some black sleeves, however there are none.... just Quad secondaries.... same color gauge. 4 greens and 4 blues.
K-Amps,
Measure the resistance between secondary windings with an ohm-meter. You will be able to tell which wires are on the same secondary, and if there is a center tap, its resistance will be 1/2 that of the upper and lower taps. If there are dual secondaries the wires from each will be open circuit on the ohm-meter allowing you to identify them as not connected.
You should be able to do this and if you write down all your readings it will make sense and you will see how easy it was.
Measure the resistance between secondary windings with an ohm-meter. You will be able to tell which wires are on the same secondary, and if there is a center tap, its resistance will be 1/2 that of the upper and lower taps. If there are dual secondaries the wires from each will be open circuit on the ohm-meter allowing you to identify them as not connected.
You should be able to do this and if you write down all your readings it will make sense and you will see how easy it was.
GeWa said:
well, yes. But I can see nine heatsinked non-TO3 devices on the main board here: http://home.ca.inter.net/~lloyd.maclean/Krell/small1116.jpg