To be fair, I never personally had any trouble there; not so much as even a warning. But I did participate in a lot of threads about modifications, various alternative drivers and horns, crossover mods, etc., that are apparently no longer permitted. Its Klipsch's forum, so that's their prerogative, and I don't harbor any negative feelings about it. But I suspect that discussions of DSP will have to take place elsewhere from now on, perhaps here.
To the moderators/forum admin:
A few times over the past few years, there has been a call for a high efficiency or horn-loaded subforum here, and some of you resisted the idea for various reasons (mostly fear of something new, I think).
Now you have the opportunity to capture a fairly significant group of horn enthusiasts that are now looking for a new home. Simply creating a forum that would allow them to feel "more at home" here I personally think is a really good idea. You may still fear that the Multiway forum would suffer. In fact, I think that it would increase interest in both forums and give the direct radiator crowd more freedom to post without the high efficiency crowd making snide remarks about their direct radiator loudspeaker choices. 😉
YMMV, and this is only a request for reconsideration of the subject. Respectfully...
Chris
A few times over the past few years, there has been a call for a high efficiency or horn-loaded subforum here, and some of you resisted the idea for various reasons (mostly fear of something new, I think).
Now you have the opportunity to capture a fairly significant group of horn enthusiasts that are now looking for a new home. Simply creating a forum that would allow them to feel "more at home" here I personally think is a really good idea. You may still fear that the Multiway forum would suffer. In fact, I think that it would increase interest in both forums and give the direct radiator crowd more freedom to post without the high efficiency crowd making snide remarks about their direct radiator loudspeaker choices. 😉
YMMV, and this is only a request for reconsideration of the subject. Respectfully...
Chris
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Just want to say welcome to all you Klipsch aficionados.
Although I’ve never owned anything Klipsch, I have spent a bit of time lurking over at the Klipsch forum.
I got pretty enamored with horns when I first joined here. There was a lot of back loaded designs for various wideband drivers being cranked out by members.
Knowing nothing about speaker design attracted me to the idea of a “no crossover” point source concept…but the complex cabinets held me back.
Eventually I ended up playing with widebands in front horns…amongst other things like open baffle.
I wonder if it’s Claude that was responsible for the Quarter Pie Horn I took such an interest in reading about?
I was very interested in building one…even acquired the EVM15B drivers.
I still want to pursue other experiments with horns.
I have several front horns I’ve hoarded here and there…including some Bruce Edgar 350Hz woooden “salad bowls”.
Some day I’ll get my act together.
I look forward to your contributions to the forum!
Although I’ve never owned anything Klipsch, I have spent a bit of time lurking over at the Klipsch forum.
I got pretty enamored with horns when I first joined here. There was a lot of back loaded designs for various wideband drivers being cranked out by members.
Knowing nothing about speaker design attracted me to the idea of a “no crossover” point source concept…but the complex cabinets held me back.
Eventually I ended up playing with widebands in front horns…amongst other things like open baffle.
I wonder if it’s Claude that was responsible for the Quarter Pie Horn I took such an interest in reading about?
I was very interested in building one…even acquired the EVM15B drivers.
I still want to pursue other experiments with horns.
I have several front horns I’ve hoarded here and there…including some Bruce Edgar 350Hz woooden “salad bowls”.
Some day I’ll get my act together.
I look forward to your contributions to the forum!
As has been said, most “Horn Systems” as people define them are direct radiators with horn tweeters. So it would make more sense given that to have a horn tweeter forum. I’m more into back loaded horns (which tend to be direct radiators at higher frequencies so the opposite). A fora limited to true horn systems would have little traffic since VERY few have the room for a proper bass horn.
My experience with Klipsch is small, and not that favorable, but i do encourage that people modify them to fix the issuses commonly seen across models in an ugly impedance response/curve. That is not an issue with a voltage amplifier, but, due to the high efficiency (even when one takes the seemingly required 3dB of optimism by the marketing department) they ar eoften recommended for use with small SE amplifiers with high output impedance where that wild impedance directly impacts frequency response.
dave
Even the Klipsch forum, and Klipsch products, are not limited to fully horn-loaded systems. I hope that any forum here would not be restricted to only horn-loaded tweeters, but would welcome any system that is horn-loaded over at least part of the spectrum.
Yes, and I think diyAudio is a good place to have those discussions (...as I think I'm hearing you say...).
Fleeing censors is precisely what is needed to enable a free and open dialogue on what can occur--here with those knowledgeable members that know a lot more than what is now allowed to be discussed in the other forum. I know other horn enthusiasts here that would certainly welcome such a subforum, some of which that are extremely knowledgeable.
Chris
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Horn design is one thing, loudspeaker integration into a hi-fi source is another.
By way of example: an inventor of a large format horn recently claimed to have iteratively built and tested (using an anechoic chamber for the measurements) 70 different horn configurations before arriving at the final horn profile. Same deal for the very recent 2" diameter throat horn lens to spread out the polars above 6.8 kHz (a half wavelength of sound is 2" at room temperature) where an undisclosed number of throat lenses were iteratively designed, fabricated, and tested in an anechoic chamber before arriving at the final design.
Now the person who did the horn and lens designs is apparently quite good at horns and phase plug designs (perhaps the best). However, when talking about other facets of hi-fi loudspeaker integration that can be effectively driven by real amplifiers that may that may or may not be current source amplifiers, that is expertise that is apparently in another technical bucket.
That is....expertise in the first area does not mean that there is the same level of expertise in the second or third area--in the same person.
As a practicing engineer over 45 years (35 years of which was as a chief or systems engineer), being able to spot the weaknesses in all design areas and then to find/apply the right technical expertise to those areas where technical weakness is suspected is offset by finding someone with the right technical expertise in another area, with the result being a high probability of a superior product or system design. That kind of expertise in each technical area can be found in some forum memberships--like this one.
That's what you can get with a good horn-loaded loudspeaker forum. Making it easy for the entire membership to quickly find then focus on horn-loaded loudspeaker developments is assumed to be a given. But presently, that is not the case with this forum. One has to dig through a bunch of threads that are not relevant, and the promised search engine to make it easy for forum members to find such info--is still not here. The membership has to instead individually wade through a fair amount of non-relevant threads before arriving at those few threads where s/he can apply their expertise.
Chris
By way of example: an inventor of a large format horn recently claimed to have iteratively built and tested (using an anechoic chamber for the measurements) 70 different horn configurations before arriving at the final horn profile. Same deal for the very recent 2" diameter throat horn lens to spread out the polars above 6.8 kHz (a half wavelength of sound is 2" at room temperature) where an undisclosed number of throat lenses were iteratively designed, fabricated, and tested in an anechoic chamber before arriving at the final design.
Now the person who did the horn and lens designs is apparently quite good at horns and phase plug designs (perhaps the best). However, when talking about other facets of hi-fi loudspeaker integration that can be effectively driven by real amplifiers that may that may or may not be current source amplifiers, that is expertise that is apparently in another technical bucket.
That is....expertise in the first area does not mean that there is the same level of expertise in the second or third area--in the same person.
As a practicing engineer over 45 years (35 years of which was as a chief or systems engineer), being able to spot the weaknesses in all design areas and then to find/apply the right technical expertise to those areas where technical weakness is suspected is offset by finding someone with the right technical expertise in another area, with the result being a high probability of a superior product or system design. That kind of expertise in each technical area can be found in some forum memberships--like this one.
That's what you can get with a good horn-loaded loudspeaker forum. Making it easy for the entire membership to quickly find then focus on horn-loaded loudspeaker developments is assumed to be a given. But presently, that is not the case with this forum. One has to dig through a bunch of threads that are not relevant, and the promised search engine to make it easy for forum members to find such info--is still not here. The membership has to instead individually wade through a fair amount of non-relevant threads before arriving at those few threads where s/he can apply their expertise.
Chris
Please take a look at the forum rules that you and everyone else agree to follow when you joined the forum. In particular rule #11
No problem (and no, I wasn't aware of that particular rule being interpreted in that particular manner--to be honest--since this occurs in my mind to be a new proposal based on entirely new circumstances).
I would like restate this as a new proposal (based on said new circumstances)--since I can recall no moderator actions that have actually occurred over the past few years, i.e., no changes to the status quo have actually occurred that is on this subject that I'm aware of.
Would that approach be more acceptable to talk about openly to gain consensus among a few here? Or would it all need to be by PMs?
Chris
I would like restate this as a new proposal (based on said new circumstances)--since I can recall no moderator actions that have actually occurred over the past few years, i.e., no changes to the status quo have actually occurred that is on this subject that I'm aware of.
Would that approach be more acceptable to talk about openly to gain consensus among a few here? Or would it all need to be by PMs?
Chris
A number of us in the mod team are into horns, myself included.. and with DIY it's reasonable to expect a wide range of configurations.
although my main objective is trying to preserve and extend the Karlson approach,
I do like horn loading and FLH when practical within one's size constants. Reflex don't impress me until 2-15" per side and then not with high mms.
These days, one with some skill at using a saw could come up with a very decent and cheap LS or Belle -like system using PRV's $70 phenolic driver and that XYPC $50 horn for mid plus a PRV horn tweeter. and whatever appropriate 15" they can find on sale.
I've never been to a hifi show - only a few stores in the 80's as have had vertigo issues for 50 years so far and those have worsen with split vision and no friends had horn systems (some had no system and maybe a Yorx) so have limited experience.
Anyhow - I have great appreciation for PWK's work including the Heritage line of exponential horns (K400 and K700 ) and unlike a lot of folks remarks, find those two horns entirely "listenable" with good recordings.
Besides K-horn and Bruce Edgar's first "100" system I have Sentry IV, PV FH1, a Bill Woods FLH 12" driver design and scaled University Classic in the pile. (I really like the baby Classic with a 10" Eminence with qts ~0.25)
Unfortunately my house was pretty much overrun by mice in 2019 and without occupation, made much worse during my month long hospitalization for an allergic reaction to lisinopril that winter. I hope to get back to the house and salvage things but up against kidney tumors, heart failure, lack of mobility, etc. Thieves got into my house and got guitars , TV's etc - but left most speakers.
What happened at Klipsch ? might this be the rise of the horn forum at DIY ????
Did anyone work out the throat ported hornresp model for the flagship Klipsch? I know it uses EQ but would like to see what advantage and tradeoffs that approach has and whether can be extended to other designs.
I do like horn loading and FLH when practical within one's size constants. Reflex don't impress me until 2-15" per side and then not with high mms.
These days, one with some skill at using a saw could come up with a very decent and cheap LS or Belle -like system using PRV's $70 phenolic driver and that XYPC $50 horn for mid plus a PRV horn tweeter. and whatever appropriate 15" they can find on sale.
I've never been to a hifi show - only a few stores in the 80's as have had vertigo issues for 50 years so far and those have worsen with split vision and no friends had horn systems (some had no system and maybe a Yorx) so have limited experience.
Anyhow - I have great appreciation for PWK's work including the Heritage line of exponential horns (K400 and K700 ) and unlike a lot of folks remarks, find those two horns entirely "listenable" with good recordings.
Besides K-horn and Bruce Edgar's first "100" system I have Sentry IV, PV FH1, a Bill Woods FLH 12" driver design and scaled University Classic in the pile. (I really like the baby Classic with a 10" Eminence with qts ~0.25)
Unfortunately my house was pretty much overrun by mice in 2019 and without occupation, made much worse during my month long hospitalization for an allergic reaction to lisinopril that winter. I hope to get back to the house and salvage things but up against kidney tumors, heart failure, lack of mobility, etc. Thieves got into my house and got guitars , TV's etc - but left most speakers.
What happened at Klipsch ? might this be the rise of the horn forum at DIY ????
Did anyone work out the throat ported hornresp model for the flagship Klipsch? I know it uses EQ but would like to see what advantage and tradeoffs that approach has and whether can be extended to other designs.
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I registered on Klipsh forum. This
does not dispose to take part in the conversation without special need 😎.
I'm new here having joined the Klipsch forum recently in the interest of restoring and modding my '71 H700 Heresies, only to find myself less than welcome as I was encouraged by Claude and others, to modify my speakers to match my listening needs. Given my DIY predilections, I think I'll fit in here just fine.
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
I’ve also petitioned for a Horns sub forum here a little while ago but support was meagre. I would still like to see one. Maybe add your support here: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/cant-find-the-horns-forum.383208/
I have a DIY pair of K-horns for starters.
I have a DIY pair of K-horns for starters.
I’m about to build another pair of @claudej12000’s Super Heresy speakers, this time from scratch, with minimal Klipsch parts: squawkers and Klipsch crossover planks, inductor and auto formers. That’s it; the rest will be aftermarket or made by me.
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
I need to do some further work on my k-horns. I'll wait til we have a horns subforum before I post 😎
in the mean time, what's the proper sub-forum to post our horn driven speakers, both the ones with horn woofers and those with traditional cone ones? it seems a little confusing...