The first drivers from _vHE series are listed (naming of links at Kartesian website is a bit misleading):
https://www.kartesian-acoustic.com/copie-de-twt30-vmshttps://en.toutlehautparleur.com/un...range/speaker-kartesian-mid120-vhe-8-ohm.html
https://www.kartesian-acoustic.com/copie-de-wom145-vhehttps://en.toutlehautparleur.com/un...ofers/speaker-kartesian-wom165-vhe-8-ohm.html
https://www.kartesian-acoustic.com/copie-de-wib90-vhphttps://en.toutlehautparleur.com/un...ofers/speaker-kartesian-sub120-vhe-8-ohm.html
https://www.kartesian-acoustic.com/copie-de-sub120-vhp-1https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/un...eaker-kartesian-sub250-vhe-8-ohm-10-inch.html
While I'm a bit dissapointed of the Mid120_vHE frequency response, the price is okay for the implemented design features and other specs in comparison e.g. to the 12MU Illuminator.
But pricing of the other drivers is way too self-confident in my opinion; the 6" is more expensive than a 6" Purify or Illuminator but I don't see that they are better or even on par. And who will pay 240 € for a 4" Mini-Subwoofer? And >500 for a 10" when you can buy a Scan Speak 10" with comparable excellent specs for less than half?
Maybe they are all good drivers but value seems very low, in sum I'm a bit frustrated of the _vHE series release. The pricing should have been orientated on SB Satori with paper cones to be competitive, can't imagine that much drivers of them will be sold....
https://www.kartesian-acoustic.com/copie-de-twt30-vmshttps://en.toutlehautparleur.com/un...range/speaker-kartesian-mid120-vhe-8-ohm.html
https://www.kartesian-acoustic.com/copie-de-wom145-vhehttps://en.toutlehautparleur.com/un...ofers/speaker-kartesian-wom165-vhe-8-ohm.html
https://www.kartesian-acoustic.com/copie-de-wib90-vhphttps://en.toutlehautparleur.com/un...ofers/speaker-kartesian-sub120-vhe-8-ohm.html
https://www.kartesian-acoustic.com/copie-de-sub120-vhp-1https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/un...eaker-kartesian-sub250-vhe-8-ohm-10-inch.html
While I'm a bit dissapointed of the Mid120_vHE frequency response, the price is okay for the implemented design features and other specs in comparison e.g. to the 12MU Illuminator.
But pricing of the other drivers is way too self-confident in my opinion; the 6" is more expensive than a 6" Purify or Illuminator but I don't see that they are better or even on par. And who will pay 240 € for a 4" Mini-Subwoofer? And >500 for a 10" when you can buy a Scan Speak 10" with comparable excellent specs for less than half?
Maybe they are all good drivers but value seems very low, in sum I'm a bit frustrated of the _vHE series release. The pricing should have been orientated on SB Satori with paper cones to be competitive, can't imagine that much drivers of them will be sold....
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If you check their website then you'll find out that this drivers measure a bit better than datasheet is showing. Still, i agree that price is very high and it'll be difficult for them to compete with SB or ScanSpeak.
Mid has first major breakup around 3,5-4kHz.
I'm disappointed too. If anything, the Wom120_vMS measures as a better driver than the Mid120_vHE (even as a midrange) and costs 100 Euros less.
Got the Mid120_vHE put them in a speaker together with Bliesma T25A-6 and Satori WO24P-4@24l CB:
Speakers not running yet. First measurements of Midrange at ~20cm distance with some room influence:
FR without gate:
BD without gate:
FR with gate:
Fortunately the hump at ~2kHz shown in the datasheet is not there, working very smooth up to ~4kHz.
Best regards,
Peter
Speakers not running yet. First measurements of Midrange at ~20cm distance with some room influence:
FR without gate:
BD without gate:
FR with gate:
Fortunately the hump at ~2kHz shown in the datasheet is not there, working very smooth up to ~4kHz.
Best regards,
Peter
Peter,
by coincidence, I was running first measurements on the WOM120_vHE myself on a rudimentary test baffle and I got almost the same results (beside some diffraction coming from my test bench). There are multiple high Q breakups (with according phase anomalies).
I can see from your picture that you will run hypex fusion amps, what is your planed low pass Fc for the WOM120_vHe ? If around 3 kHz
I'm curious to see if you can get around the huge breaks ups because my first attempts with VituixCAD are not that good
by coincidence, I was running first measurements on the WOM120_vHE myself on a rudimentary test baffle and I got almost the same results (beside some diffraction coming from my test bench). There are multiple high Q breakups (with according phase anomalies).
I can see from your picture that you will run hypex fusion amps, what is your planed low pass Fc for the WOM120_vHe ? If around 3 kHz
I'm curious to see if you can get around the huge breaks ups because my first attempts with VituixCAD are not that good
It's the Mid120_vHE, not the WOM. I plan to cross around 2,2 kHz LR4. Some high Q noches may help to get the filter slope smooth...
Sorry, my bad, I have the MID too, so we are talking about the same driver. 2,2kHz LR4 will be easier to achieve I was planing to use it from 300 to 3kHz... and even with 8th order low-pass as suggested by Kartesian it's... not easy to say the least
This is a rough simulation with traced manufacturer responses for initial feasibility studies :
Throw "a bit" equalization on the midrange, though...
But this is not optimized, just "brute force" equalization via Virtuixcad optimizer for first studies.
So i think ist's well possibe with DSP (and Mid120_vHE behaves even smoother than on datasheet), but may be a hard challenge for passive crossover design approaches...
Throw "a bit" equalization on the midrange, though...
But this is not optimized, just "brute force" equalization via Virtuixcad optimizer for first studies.
So i think ist's well possibe with DSP (and Mid120_vHE behaves even smoother than on datasheet), but may be a hard challenge for passive crossover design approaches...
Build is finished:
I did some hasty measurements in the living room for initial operation with some xover and filtering:
Measurement window +/- 40° horizontal, +/-20° vertical, gated, smoothing 1/12 octave, on-axis frequency responses of woofer and midrange merged with nearfield responses + baffle simulation.
Measurement distance 1m between center MT/HT, mic height approx. center of room. I compensated for the higher delay from TT to mic due to the geometric error in the input mask for the driver (delay = -70 us), but no compensation for the level error.
The very wide dispersing tweeter sees a lot of edges, that causes some ripple in the higher frequencies.
The midrange needed some efford (three of the ParamEQs) to get the breakups under control.
The LS will be measured again in near future outdoors / in my garden with a larger measurement distance, a significantly longer gate and +/-180° in all directions.
The sound detaches well from the speakers and spans a "soundfield" very far beyond the LS. All sound sources are neatly and stable arranged. The sound is very clear, detailed, neutral and "real". This happens unusually compellingly, probably due to the overall very wide dispersion.
The speakers can also play quite loud, but the woofer limits by its maximum excursion (support by subwoofers <80Hz is on the roadmap). Up to that point, however, no compression can be heard, the sound doesn't collapse in any way.
The mid-highs can play - at least up to that level - even more dynamic, realistic and let it subjectively more "bang" than a combination of 18Sound 8NMB420 and Satori TW29DN with significantly more membrane area ...
First of all, I'm very happy...
Best regards
Peter
I did some hasty measurements in the living room for initial operation with some xover and filtering:
Measurement window +/- 40° horizontal, +/-20° vertical, gated, smoothing 1/12 octave, on-axis frequency responses of woofer and midrange merged with nearfield responses + baffle simulation.
Measurement distance 1m between center MT/HT, mic height approx. center of room. I compensated for the higher delay from TT to mic due to the geometric error in the input mask for the driver (delay = -70 us), but no compensation for the level error.
The very wide dispersing tweeter sees a lot of edges, that causes some ripple in the higher frequencies.
The midrange needed some efford (three of the ParamEQs) to get the breakups under control.
The LS will be measured again in near future outdoors / in my garden with a larger measurement distance, a significantly longer gate and +/-180° in all directions.
The sound detaches well from the speakers and spans a "soundfield" very far beyond the LS. All sound sources are neatly and stable arranged. The sound is very clear, detailed, neutral and "real". This happens unusually compellingly, probably due to the overall very wide dispersion.
The speakers can also play quite loud, but the woofer limits by its maximum excursion (support by subwoofers <80Hz is on the roadmap). Up to that point, however, no compression can be heard, the sound doesn't collapse in any way.
The mid-highs can play - at least up to that level - even more dynamic, realistic and let it subjectively more "bang" than a combination of 18Sound 8NMB420 and Satori TW29DN with significantly more membrane area ...
First of all, I'm very happy...
Best regards
Peter
Kwesi,
You said that you did your measurements +/- 40° horizontal and +/- 20° vertical so I do not understand why the DI is almost 0 dB from 100 Hz to 10 kHz (red curve on Power & DI) ?
You said that you did your measurements +/- 40° horizontal and +/- 20° vertical so I do not understand why the DI is almost 0 dB from 100 Hz to 10 kHz (red curve on Power & DI) ?
Ah, in options the hook is set at "Listening Window Directivity Index" (also see screenshot above), which means that only +/-30° hor and +/-10 ver measurements are taken into account for DI calculation. And within that window the speaker has very wide dispersion. Had not my attention on DI because it's not a full spinorama...
As mentioned:
The LS will be measured again in near future outdoors / in my garden with a larger measurement distance, a significantly longer gate and +/-180° in all directions.
But it may take few weeks till I find the time (and the weather fits also) do this.
Best regards
Peter
The LS will be measured again in near future outdoors / in my garden with a larger measurement distance, a significantly longer gate and +/-180° in all directions.
But it may take few weeks till I find the time (and the weather fits also) do this.
Best regards
Peter
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Here are the measurements and system description:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/system-pictures-description.23208/page-177#post-7002595
Best regards
Peter
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/system-pictures-description.23208/page-177#post-7002595
Best regards
Peter