I use nice caps in every place I can. Just don't spend much money on them.
For example these are excellent. Much cheaper than solen or the crazy expensive botique stuff. If your circuit is well designed then the components don't need to be posh.
I don't recognize those, but I've always used Solen, since they are actually quite cheap for film caps (a 20uf/400V film cap is about 8 dollars, for example. This is a cap I often use for my cap input after my 5Y3 rectifiers). If those are actually cheaper, I'd be interested in using those instead.
For smaller caps in signal path, I could not get better than Russian K40Y-9 paper-in-oil's. They are cheap, available and have best treble sparkle I could wish for + very clean mids.
Mind you, they do need to burn in for a week or so (or is it your ears that need to get accustomed!). I have tried tens of different signal caps, up to £25 a capacitor from mundorf and ended up selling them all on ebay!
For larger bypass caps (20uF or more) my choice is Nichicon Gold.
Again cheap, available and 95% as good as the best of any, at any price.
Mind you, they do need to burn in for a week or so (or is it your ears that need to get accustomed!). I have tried tens of different signal caps, up to £25 a capacitor from mundorf and ended up selling them all on ebay!
For larger bypass caps (20uF or more) my choice is Nichicon Gold.
Again cheap, available and 95% as good as the best of any, at any price.
I listen to them, not expose myself to them!cancer generator, i´d rather take teflon
besides they are sealed in glass and steel.
Curiosity and Schrodinger's cat..
Curiosity got the better of me..so I have replaced the Jantzen red Z with
The silver Z..
Time to listen..
I can now see why there seems to be little in the way of comparison between the Red Z and the Silver Z Jantzen on the internet.
There is a difference and it would obviously depend on circuit configuration. The feeling is very subjective which is strange because the two caps are very different.
I prefer the silver Z.. I find the red Z seems to give an over warm bottom end with a quite good image.
When I put the silver Z in it was harsh and the detail stuck out like a sore thumb. Very uncomfortable at first but I persevered with it and guess what my ears burned in..we all know caps don't change really..
I think they do... but there you go!Anyway they calmed down after a while...I can understand the comments on the cap test page:
Humble Homemade Hifi
At first I had a real problem..I liked the Red Z imaging but disliked the warm bass. So I went back and forth between the caps and settled on the Silver Z which is different to the results on the cap test.
My ears have burned in so well now that I wonder where all the detail has gone
and then I notice a tambourine or rhythm sticks in the distant background. Its a bit like magic the harsh sound is fading away over time.They can sound a bit thin compared to other caps, however if you want high values and the cost is an issue..
Its a shame I don't have some Robert Hovland super caps to compare around at the moment, because I believe the Hovland are better! However there is the price..
Its interesting that the Janzen's can give the equipment a sort of old feel but with a modern twist..
Words like Warm..Smooth are not really correct..so now I know why there is very little written about them.
They don't sound like obbligato which has a darker feel..YMMV
Used with Tantalum resistors you get a warmer smoother sound..You have to watch you don't loose the dynamics. However its interesting..
Regards
M. Gregg
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I am listening to the commodores at the moment,
One of the things that's awkward is I am struggling to think how I can improve it at the moment..It sounds right if you know what I mean.
Correction I have listened to the whole album..
On to nightingales and bombers MMEB..
Regards
M. Gregg
One of the things that's awkward is I am struggling to think how I can improve it at the moment..It sounds right if you know what I mean.
Correction I have listened to the whole album..
On to nightingales and bombers MMEB..
Regards
M. Gregg
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Yes ears burn in more than caps do, but caps DO burn in too, the do settle down.
As for Obbligato's - it is funny, I rebuilt the crossover circuits in my Sonus faber grand piano's and used Obbligato premium gold caps, they made the speakers so bright, I had to tame down the HF driver using extra resistors!
They also made the same drivers sound so clear and airy, it is unbelievable.
You can hear the faintest (& smallest) triangles from the back of the orchestra as clear as a bell!
This has made me rethink,
If changing caps can have this effect, the information is coming out of the source so why isn't it reaching the amplifier? Nothing special in the source and the amp can generate this information..so why is it not seen with an integrated in the same way?
(its nuts) There would seem to be complete parts of the sound missing in comparison..even if you don't like the way its presented you can't help but ask whats going on..its like someone has used a mixer and removed the information.Then you have to ask why is it coming out of the source..no special caps in there either..
Regards
M. Gregg
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Bottle-neck can happen any where.
It is sometime sheer luck to discover one and remedy it.
Nuts! it is.
BTW - the Obbligato's had the same effect on a different pair of sonus fabers (same tweeter though) that I have ( Concerto home ) being fed by a 15W, EL84 based push-pull amp.
Been in this game for 30 years, never had I heard the top treble sounding so clean.
Perhaps in some shows . . . .
It is sometime sheer luck to discover one and remedy it.
Nuts! it is.
BTW - the Obbligato's had the same effect on a different pair of sonus fabers (same tweeter though) that I have ( Concerto home ) being fed by a 15W, EL84 based push-pull amp.
Been in this game for 30 years, never had I heard the top treble sounding so clean.
Perhaps in some shows . . . .
I noticed with obbligato's when I set up my OTL you could hear the room acoustics quite well..I ended up using Robert hovland supercaps.
I think the reason the Jantzens made me think is the detail is pushed into your face you can't help but miss it when you change back to other components. But why is it coming out of the source..its obviously there..nothing special in the source..then change a cap and bang its there it doesn't make sense.
How can a complete instrument/instruments vanish if they are in the source output information..
Regards
M. Gregg
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I'm just trying a combination of parts on an Aikido line stage.
Just some thoughts on trying a few components. (Don't read any further)
its of no interest.
___________________________________________________________
1uF Silver Z Jantzen on the input with a 3.3uF Obbligato on the output.
Input and output 1Meg .5W Tantalum, other 1Meg and input resistors are Takman metal REY.
100K input pot law faked with 15K Tantalum.
Running ECC88 with 270ohm cathode resistors (standard Maplin 2W) at 245V. I tried metal Ray in this position and they sound overly warm.
This is the setting I prefer..I tried the standard maplin .6 W just for interest, they sounded really harsh in comparison YMMV.
The combination of the silver Z and the obbligato was absolute pants at first with the reverb from the obbligato and the harsh Silver Z.
The Jantzen calmed down after a few days. The obbligato changed and sounded awful, that bad I took it out and tried a red Z in place of it but the red Z was flat in comparison so I put the obbligato back in.
Its interesting how the effect of removing and reinserting a component makes you think its sounds different. So I am giving the Obbligato another try because I don't know what's happened to the reverb effect it has gone and the bad sound is changing again.
initial effect of the obbligato was very bright top end with a horrible reverb effect. Then what seemed to be a change to a scooped mid band with a warm bright treble. Then a really bad sound with a thin warm midrange and no reverb effect. That's when I took them out.
I put them back in. Effect no reverb warm mid slightly thin with smooth treble. Since that point the mid seems to be getting some depth as time goes on.
Of course this is complete rubbish because only ears change with sudo psycho acoustic effects. So I'm waiting for the end result...
However its interesting. YMMV
NB its contagious these psycho acoustics..my son who has no interest at all in any electronics and thinks HIFI audio is completed rubbish said its been many years watching you, I though you were just nuts. I just looked at him.. then he said I know what your doing now he said you are listening to the sound..LMAO..I said what did you think I was doing? He said I thought it was all complete rubbish but the change from the last time I listened to this time is completely different I don't know what you have done. I said don't even give it a second thought its audio..
Regards
M. Gregg
Just some thoughts on trying a few components. (Don't read any further)
its of no interest.___________________________________________________________
1uF Silver Z Jantzen on the input with a 3.3uF Obbligato on the output.
Input and output 1Meg .5W Tantalum, other 1Meg and input resistors are Takman metal REY.
100K input pot law faked with 15K Tantalum.
Running ECC88 with 270ohm cathode resistors (standard Maplin 2W) at 245V. I tried metal Ray in this position and they sound overly warm.
This is the setting I prefer..I tried the standard maplin .6 W just for interest, they sounded really harsh in comparison YMMV.
The combination of the silver Z and the obbligato was absolute pants at first with the reverb from the obbligato and the harsh Silver Z.
The Jantzen calmed down after a few days. The obbligato changed and sounded awful, that bad I took it out and tried a red Z in place of it but the red Z was flat in comparison so I put the obbligato back in.
Its interesting how the effect of removing and reinserting a component makes you think its sounds different. So I am giving the Obbligato another try because I don't know what's happened to the reverb effect it has gone and the bad sound is changing again.
initial effect of the obbligato was very bright top end with a horrible reverb effect. Then what seemed to be a change to a scooped mid band with a warm bright treble. Then a really bad sound with a thin warm midrange and no reverb effect. That's when I took them out.I put them back in. Effect no reverb warm mid slightly thin with smooth treble. Since that point the mid seems to be getting some depth as time goes on.
Of course this is complete rubbish because only ears change with sudo psycho acoustic effects. So I'm waiting for the end result...
However its interesting. YMMV
NB its contagious these psycho acoustics..my son who has no interest at all in any electronics and thinks HIFI audio is completed rubbish said its been many years watching you, I though you were just nuts. I just looked at him.. then he said I know what your doing now he said you are listening to the sound..LMAO..I said what did you think I was doing? He said I thought it was all complete rubbish but the change from the last time I listened to this time is completely different I don't know what you have done. I said don't even give it a second thought its audio..
Regards
M. Gregg
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Has this ever happened to you ?
You ask for tea, they give you coffee, and as soon as you taste it, you spit it out, with a bad taste in your mouth!
not that you hate coffee, it was just not what you expected. Later you might drink the same coffee and enjoy it too!
Drawing a parallel here, you change a component, expecting a certain effect!
But it does something un-expected, and at first you hate it . . . you get my drift?
If only we could be objective about our observations and see them for what they are, not what we had hoped for.
For me the Obbligato gold's are very revealing in upper mid to treble, with a hump at about 7K to 10K. It makes cymbals and bells jump out with a wonderful detail, but it hardly touches violins or voices.
But then again, I only used them in my speaker Xovers!
for line stages, I swear by cheap Russian Paper-in-oil K40y-9's - after a couple of weeks of burning in, nothing is better.
I think the reverb you were hearing was some acoustics you could not hear before, apart from frequency response & detail retrieval, caps can not have any other effect.
You ask for tea, they give you coffee, and as soon as you taste it, you spit it out, with a bad taste in your mouth!
not that you hate coffee, it was just not what you expected. Later you might drink the same coffee and enjoy it too!
Drawing a parallel here, you change a component, expecting a certain effect!
But it does something un-expected, and at first you hate it . . . you get my drift?
If only we could be objective about our observations and see them for what they are, not what we had hoped for.
For me the Obbligato gold's are very revealing in upper mid to treble, with a hump at about 7K to 10K. It makes cymbals and bells jump out with a wonderful detail, but it hardly touches violins or voices.
But then again, I only used them in my speaker Xovers!
for line stages, I swear by cheap Russian Paper-in-oil K40y-9's - after a couple of weeks of burning in, nothing is better.
I think the reverb you were hearing was some acoustics you could not hear before, apart from frequency response & detail retrieval, caps can not have any other effect.
M Gregg
When you change capacitors, have you first determined which lead is connected to the outer layer foil of the capacitor?
The outer layer foil lead should be connected to the lowest impedance path towards ground to avoid picking up excessive noise from the rest of the amp.
The sound could certainly change from just reversing a capacitor, so any difference in sound from different capacitors could just be effect of where the outer foil is connected.
When you change capacitors, have you first determined which lead is connected to the outer layer foil of the capacitor?
The outer layer foil lead should be connected to the lowest impedance path towards ground to avoid picking up excessive noise from the rest of the amp.
The sound could certainly change from just reversing a capacitor, so any difference in sound from different capacitors could just be effect of where the outer foil is connected.
The direction was the same and not reversed.
I always screen my signal caps no matter what type I use.
I use a scope to find the outer foil.
I did wonder if the heat from the soldering iron via the lead outs had an effect..(heating the inside of the capacitor)..yes its a lame excuse..
This isn't new to me I have had the same effect on many caps.
Regards
M. Gregg
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I get your point
however I have used Obbligato's before. The Jantzens are a new component try for me.
Its about time the new Obbligato's have an insulation over the metal can..
Its a bit like asking why does the outside can of a capacitor effect the sound? (Jensen)
Does anyone actually know? We can guess at things like micro phonics, however that would say there is a problem with the cap tightness.
Or dielectric leakage..
http://jimmyauw.com/2009/08/18/extreme-capacitors-battle-2nd-session/
Regards
M. Gregg
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Years ago,
People would put black tac under capacitors. and sobathane pads on PCB's
I have toyed with the idea of self amalgamating tape just for a laugh..
However it doesn't answer the question about Jensen.
I have put rubber mounts on tag board as well..in the past. EF86 comes to mind.
Regards
M. Gregg
People would put black tac under capacitors. and sobathane pads on PCB's
I have toyed with the idea of self amalgamating tape just for a laugh..
However it doesn't answer the question about Jensen.
I have put rubber mounts on tag board as well..in the past. EF86 comes to mind.
Regards
M. Gregg
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