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Hi all,
A couple areas that I did not mention in my previous description of performance are imaging and how positioning effects this. I had heard that Jordan drivers like to have severe toe in so that the axis cross in front of the listening position. As my room is not large I am sat only about 5' from the plane of the speakers.
I started with the axis crossing about a foot in front of my head. This resulted in a well defined soundstage with individual elements being solidly located in space. The soundstage however lacked depth and was confined to between the speakers.
I tried aiming the axis so that they crossed well behind my head. This expanded the size of the stage but reduced the focus and solidly of the images especially in the centre.
Aiming the axis directly at me did cause the top end to become a bit much.
I experimented with a range of different toe ins and settled on crossing about 18" in front of my head. (odd how I use imperial measurements for this and metric everywhere else).
What really made a huge difference was pulling the speakers an extra foot into the room. The soundstage exploded when I did this, huge, focused and solid. Unfortunately this is not a position where they can live permanently. I have managed to get them about 4" further into the room than the original position and although not as good as a foot still acceptable. I would love to try them in a larger room where I can get them 3' or 4' into the room.
Whilst moving the speakers around I noticed something slightly uncanny. I had my head close to a speaker and the sound all appeared to emanate from just in front of the phase plug. It appears to come from here regardless of where I listen from. Normally sound appears to come from a speaker more as a whole. This would suggest that rounding off the cabinet has had a profound effect. You normally get a lot of clues as to the location of the cabinet from the sound diffracted from its edges.
Niffy
Hi all,
A couple areas that I did not mention in my previous description of performance are imaging and how positioning effects this. I had heard that Jordan drivers like to have severe toe in so that the axis cross in front of the listening position. As my room is not large I am sat only about 5' from the plane of the speakers.
I started with the axis crossing about a foot in front of my head. This resulted in a well defined soundstage with individual elements being solidly located in space. The soundstage however lacked depth and was confined to between the speakers.
I tried aiming the axis so that they crossed well behind my head. This expanded the size of the stage but reduced the focus and solidly of the images especially in the centre.
Aiming the axis directly at me did cause the top end to become a bit much.
I experimented with a range of different toe ins and settled on crossing about 18" in front of my head. (odd how I use imperial measurements for this and metric everywhere else).
What really made a huge difference was pulling the speakers an extra foot into the room. The soundstage exploded when I did this, huge, focused and solid. Unfortunately this is not a position where they can live permanently. I have managed to get them about 4" further into the room than the original position and although not as good as a foot still acceptable. I would love to try them in a larger room where I can get them 3' or 4' into the room.
Whilst moving the speakers around I noticed something slightly uncanny. I had my head close to a speaker and the sound all appeared to emanate from just in front of the phase plug. It appears to come from here regardless of where I listen from. Normally sound appears to come from a speaker more as a whole. This would suggest that rounding off the cabinet has had a profound effect. You normally get a lot of clues as to the location of the cabinet from the sound diffracted from its edges.
Niffy
The Parts Connexion is just down the road from me so the delivery doesn't enter into it... well it didn't until Covid. The "store-bought" units are mostly attractive because they are very compact to fit into legacy equipment. In my case there is no existing pinout to match up with.
In your room you seem to be toeing in the speakers to cross about 3 feet from the plane. That seems to be pretty "toed in" but I guess it's all relative.
I wonder how deadening that end of the room slightly might help/hinder?
In your room you seem to be toeing in the speakers to cross about 3 feet from the plane. That seems to be pretty "toed in" but I guess it's all relative.
I wonder how deadening that end of the room slightly might help/hinder?
So you won't be using your subwoofer then?
The sub adds an extra octave to the bottom end and is used though they are quite listenable without.
The sub uses the same driver as is used by Tom Evans in the tead model 1 loudspeaker. The model 1 uses the jx92.
They are heavily toed in. The general consensus and Jordan's recommendation is that they should be toed in a so that the axes cross a good distance infront of the listening position. My experiments seem to confirm this advice.
The room is naturally well damped, it could be having stone walls several feet thick. I would like to experiment with some form of damping or diffusion panels. I'm going to have to find a way of doing it that doesn't offend my wife. Experiments with a duvet and a couple of planks would be free and tell me if it's worth pursuing.
Niffy
Hi all,
The speakers have had a good couple of hours put on the clock.
I've swapped back to using the ortofon cartridge. The midrange of the denon was beguiling, rich and warm, but ultimately too coloured, too rose tinted for my tastes. The ortofon also covers the frequency extremes in a much better manner. Very different styles of sound.
I have experimented further with positioning but ended up back in the same position they were in previously.
Compared to other drivers that I have experimented with (which is a lot, I worked for a hifi dealer for 10yrs and ran their servicing department) the Eikonas don't seem to change as much as most with run in. They are definitely sounding smoother through the midrange and top end but haven't lost any of their incisiveness or bite.
Basically I'm loving the sound of these speakers. I think all the work required to make the complex cabinets has definitely paid off.
Very happy.
Niffy
The speakers have had a good couple of hours put on the clock.
I've swapped back to using the ortofon cartridge. The midrange of the denon was beguiling, rich and warm, but ultimately too coloured, too rose tinted for my tastes. The ortofon also covers the frequency extremes in a much better manner. Very different styles of sound.
I have experimented further with positioning but ended up back in the same position they were in previously.
Compared to other drivers that I have experimented with (which is a lot, I worked for a hifi dealer for 10yrs and ran their servicing department) the Eikonas don't seem to change as much as most with run in. They are definitely sounding smoother through the midrange and top end but haven't lost any of their incisiveness or bite.
Basically I'm loving the sound of these speakers. I think all the work required to make the complex cabinets has definitely paid off.
Very happy.
Niffy
The Cabinets look amazing! Love the translam look. Years ago, I did a similar project using the Eikona 2 driver in a sealed cab over subs... The best system Ive built to date and still enjoy the setup everyday.
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Thanks 11opas,
I found your speakers on the Jordan website a couple of years ago and was mightily impressed. I did ask you a couple of questions on your diyaudio thread about how you implemented the active crossover. For a future project I would like to build a pair of subs. I might use the same seas ROY26 driver that you have. I am leaning towards the scanspeak 23W/4557T00, it's about the same price as the seas ROY26 and matching radiator combined.
It's a really clean looking system you've built. I like your traps.
Niffy
I found your speakers on the Jordan website a couple of years ago and was mightily impressed. I did ask you a couple of questions on your diyaudio thread about how you implemented the active crossover. For a future project I would like to build a pair of subs. I might use the same seas ROY26 driver that you have. I am leaning towards the scanspeak 23W/4557T00, it's about the same price as the seas ROY26 and matching radiator combined.
It's a really clean looking system you've built. I like your traps.
Niffy
I've been running them with the sub pretty much from the start. I only ran them without the sub for a little while, just to get an idea of what they could do by themselves. I initially had a bit of trouble integrating with the sub until I remembered that I had the sub wired out of phase as my previous speakers had a second order crossover on the bottom end. The sub now integrates seamlessly. The improvements wrought in the higher frequencies have tightened up the bottom end. As I was just mentioning to 11opas I would, at some point in the future, like to build a pair of better subs. An extra octave would go down nicely.
Niffy
Niffy
I had not considered open baffle subs. I have heard that they can have advantages in the way they load the room but are less efficient. It's not going to be anytime soon that I build anything so I can explore all options.
I believe that the Voxative active subs are open baffle (don't quote me) and they sounded effortless when I heard them at this years Bristol hifi show. They integrated with the room better than pretty much anything else at that show.
Niffy
I believe that the Voxative active subs are open baffle (don't quote me) and they sounded effortless when I heard them at this years Bristol hifi show. They integrated with the room better than pretty much anything else at that show.
Niffy
Niffy,
I saw you speaker on the EJ Jordan Instagram page. Looks good.
I just recently built the miniline enclosure for my Eikona 2s. I like the sound, but it needs a little more bass output. It sounds OK with my ACAs. Working on my modulus amp. May also bi-amp it with my markaudio Alpair 12Pw and will try it out with my subs at some point also.
I saw you speaker on the EJ Jordan Instagram page. Looks good.
I just recently built the miniline enclosure for my Eikona 2s. I like the sound, but it needs a little more bass output. It sounds OK with my ACAs. Working on my modulus amp. May also bi-amp it with my markaudio Alpair 12Pw and will try it out with my subs at some point also.
Hi PJN
My speakers have probably got more than 30hrs on them by now. They have definitely sweetened up during this period. The difference with the eikona is that they sounded great straight out of the box, many drivers sound like a bag of nails when brand new. I don't know if they have more improvement to come, maybe a little bit.
Niffy
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Hi WCWC
I haven't seen my build on the Jordan site yet.
One of the reasons why I didn't go for the mini or a similar transmission line is the general consensus is that the bass is a bit lacking. Many builders of these speakers end up adding a subwoofer. As I'm going to use a sub anyway I didn't need to extend the bottom end of the eikona by adding a line or port. I prefer to use a sealed box for midrange drivers which is basically how I am using the eikona.
Niffy
Great work Niffy, the speakers look fantastic. You should be very proud.
I am planning to use the translam method to build some spherical enclosures for a pair of bipolar speakers having up and down firing mid bass. I found this thread very useful especially how you curved the outside and inside with only basic tools.
Many thanks.
I am planning to use the translam method to build some spherical enclosures for a pair of bipolar speakers having up and down firing mid bass. I found this thread very useful especially how you curved the outside and inside with only basic tools.
Many thanks.