He, he, he Johnjohn curl said:
I must correct myself you don't have to be an academic in no way this only leads to square thinking, but you must have fingerspitzengefühl as a violin maker.
Kamskoma
jacco vermeulen said:
Jacco,
There seems to be little wrong with your language and reasoning.
Thus you said.
Do you think hearing nuances in sound degrades with age?
Please note, I said nuances in sound, not highest audio frequencies.
I believe this is my greatest "fault" – not having an engineering degree and daring to present views different from the views of some engineers.
It seems that your attitude is something like: "when engineers express views, all others should shut up".
If I didn't get your meaning correctly – please clarify it.
Yet you ridicule him, so I wonder what's going on.
Joshua,
In 1998 I designed an amp with the purpose to see if it would be accepted by 'golden ears'. It was tested by Jean Hiraga in L'Audiophile, (Spitsbergen amp) and scored 39.5 out of a max of 40. That test was the first time I listened to it.
I still wonder if I could have made 39.8 if I only listened to it before 😀 😀
Get real, man!
Jan Didden
janneman said:
I didn't say listening without measuring first.
Not all amplifiers that measure the same also sound the same.
Now, do you claim that listening to an amplifier isn't necessary in order to complete its' design?
Maybe you should read up on this thread.
From the start i've been the biggest suck-up artist, stating time and again that Mr Curl deserves a little credit and basic respect for what he has accomplished in his audio career.
Mr Curl has expressed that he's also here to learn if possible, and seems to have on occasion, therefore he's not infallible.
I can't recall anyone ever questioning his circuits, merely his outspoken choice of some parts : the fact that his gear sounds wonderfull with blessed wire and other gizmos does not prove that it doesn't without.
From the start i've been the biggest suck-up artist, stating time and again that Mr Curl deserves a little credit and basic respect for what he has accomplished in his audio career.
Mr Curl has expressed that he's also here to learn if possible, and seems to have on occasion, therefore he's not infallible.
I can't recall anyone ever questioning his circuits, merely his outspoken choice of some parts : the fact that his gear sounds wonderfull with blessed wire and other gizmos does not prove that it doesn't without.
Schh!
We have to join, not fight each other, " I drop my pants and bend over" like a famous audio editor wrote for at least 20 years ago when something gets wrong.
Of course all engineers and technicians should be a community helping each other as far it is possible.
It's a matter of dignity and understanding.
I saw on Roger Russell site that he was very bad treated at McIntosh a very sad story, but I think he will get som revenge, a sort of vendetta!
Kamskoma
We have to join, not fight each other, " I drop my pants and bend over" like a famous audio editor wrote for at least 20 years ago when something gets wrong.
Of course all engineers and technicians should be a community helping each other as far it is possible.
It's a matter of dignity and understanding.
I saw on Roger Russell site that he was very bad treated at McIntosh a very sad story, but I think he will get som revenge, a sort of vendetta!
Kamskoma
Jan, it may be true sometimes, but almost always you are able to refine the design during final listening tests. It means tuning of input RC filter (funny but 350kHz or 150kHz can make difference, side effects), internal cables used, etc. etc.
janneman said:
Reminds me of the Bill Gates Microsoft story in the 70's. The first time Paul Allen ever ran MS Basic on the actual target hardware was in front of their first customer. BTW, this was with a hand assembled pen and paper boot loader Paul Allen wrote on the airplane traveling to the sales demo.
Thorough engineering design pays off.
-David
...reminds me of the responses I used to get from a certain portion of the technical staff at a certain university research center that went something like "...read the manual first, and then come back to me if you have a specific question...", which of course is a fine response that says basically, " I know, you don't, I busted my *** to learn it because that's the same answer I got, and you ain't gettin' any free from me, jerk..."
My personal view is that if you have superior information you ought to simply share it, make factual corrections, or shut up if you have nothing to add or that illuminates the topic or issues.
...arrogant, self-righteous diatribe comes off as assinine insecurity, which looks bad and reads badly as well. It doesn't make for enjoyable reading in an otherwise very excellent thread. So, why do it?
_-_-bear
My personal view is that if you have superior information you ought to simply share it, make factual corrections, or shut up if you have nothing to add or that illuminates the topic or issues.
...arrogant, self-righteous diatribe comes off as assinine insecurity, which looks bad and reads badly as well. It doesn't make for enjoyable reading in an otherwise very excellent thread. So, why do it?
_-_-bear
Please do not confuse "subjective evaluation" with "uncontrolled evaluation." It's that sort of loose use of language which breeds confusion and misunderstanding.
I will have to disagree a bit with Jan. I think it's necessary (or at least a whole lot easier!) to combine subjective evaluation with rigorous measurement. Issues like overload recovery are much easier to hear than to measure against a metric that correlates to audibility.
HI John just a curiosity ...
will be the possibily one day , you go for hi-end kit like your friend Erno
will be the possibily one day , you go for hi-end kit like your friend Erno
SY said:
I'm not sure about that. Overload recovery (and clipping) is very easy to measure and take care of.
I do agree that most differences in amps come from differences in overload recovery and clipping behaviour. That's one of the advantages of 300W+ amps: they clip much less often.
Jan Didden
JFET GURU
This is cool, just sit down and enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m49vM0Ryt8&feature=related
Kamskoma
This is cool, just sit down and enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m49vM0Ryt8&feature=related
Kamskoma
Jan: easy to measure, hard to correlate the measurements to subjective sonics. This is especially true (IME) for phono stages.
bear said:
to improve ones perceived relative position, one can either build himself up, or tear down everyone else.
If you have little/nothing to offer, what's left?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.