That's getting to be more my feeling about it too. It was once more gentlemanly, more professional. The trolls are pulling it down to their level. That's the way it is. The neighborhood has badly gone downhill, one can fight back they way they fight or worse, be overrun, or leave.
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I look forward to your much deeper analysis. I'm sure it will benefit from your extensive knowledge of auditory perception.
(oops, I didn't post the second post earlier, here it is)
The Gedlee Metric Demystified
I still see this as only a moderate improvement. It still uses a single number that's a conglomerate of several effects.
So here's my thing:
I propose TWO numbers, one for the amount of, say, second, third and (maybe) fourth harmonics, and the other for the amount of fifth and higher harmonics (the exact composition and proportions of these should be determined experimentally). The first could be called "Low Harmonic Distortion" (LHD) and the second "High Harmonic Distortion" (HHD).
A higher LHD number would come from tube designs and low-feedback solid-state designs such as Pass' DIY amps (and the quadratic and cubic distortion curves that PMA mentioned).
A high HHD number would be from traditional high-feedback solid-state designs which are not executed well, and which (attempt to) rely on feedback to reduce distortion inherent in the design.
Ideally in a good device both of these values would be low, but a higher LHD number would not be nearly as objectionable as a higher HHD number.
It's always been hard to quantify sound difference vs. measured distortion (THD or IMD). The measured values of THD and IMD became common because they are (relatively) easy to measure, but they don't correlate well with the sounds of different amplifiers (or other audio electronic devices). Here's one attempt to make an improved measurement value:
The Gedlee Metric Demystified
I still see this as only a moderate improvement. It still uses a single number that's a conglomerate of several effects.
So here's my thing:
I propose TWO numbers, one for the amount of, say, second, third and (maybe) fourth harmonics, and the other for the amount of fifth and higher harmonics (the exact composition and proportions of these should be determined experimentally). The first could be called "Low Harmonic Distortion" (LHD) and the second "High Harmonic Distortion" (HHD).
A higher LHD number would come from tube designs and low-feedback solid-state designs such as Pass' DIY amps (and the quadratic and cubic distortion curves that PMA mentioned).
A high HHD number would be from traditional high-feedback solid-state designs which are not executed well, and which (attempt to) rely on feedback to reduce distortion inherent in the design.
Ideally in a good device both of these values would be low, but a higher LHD number would not be nearly as objectionable as a higher HHD number.
Exactly, excellent observation.
Here, this should tie it all together:Did you watch Uri Geller on the Tonight Show, quite a performance. I guess Johnny "cheated" by farkleing all the magician's props before the show.
YouTube
Brilliant actually, I figure this is what would happen when certain people were confronted with a no cheat DBT.
I loved it, especially the boozy drumming. Takes a lot of talent to hip-sway the beat like that, and to be honest, the band out beatled the Beatles.
You wanna check out ‘London Zulu’ by Doreen Thibokele. Soweto dancehall meets Brixton funk.
ToS
Elsewhere on the internet it means "show me the photos of your naked escapades that you just bragged about"
generally written
Pics Or It Didn't Happen
You won't beat the trolls by claiming you can hear -120dB IMD, THD, whatever. You only demonstrate your own trolling skills.
Know what's funny? I can leave this thread whenever I may think I've had enough of it, like SY and so many other already did; you and your mmerrill99, Jakob(x), JC and the rest of the gang can't; it's your raison d'etre in audio 😀.
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I have been on both ends.
I do not have to like a person to know that they are upstanding.
If everybody "yessed" me, I would worry.
Sy's analysis, as much as I've seen, is above reproach.
Of course, that is just my opinion, worth very little.
Jn
'Dialing in' in this context is physical changes that improve clarity and discrimination and intelligibility in the sound and nothing to do with 'warm up' or 'break in'. Dialing in is physical changes like speaker positioning, speaker mounting, cables, power filtering, crossover capcitors etc that can help to reduce distortions and maskings that obscure low level information in recordings such that this detail is 'magically' revealed.
I have no doubt that your 3 months in the bush heightened your expectation bias and that after a few days reality struck home that the system that you imagined was not so good after all. This is perfect example of your deluding yourself, my brain<>ear does not lie to me like that, I am yet to hear an unchanging system where my initial impressions changed with exposure, rather my initial impressions are confirmed with exposure. I can learn to maybe tolerate an aurally unpleasant system but I never learn to like or enjoy such a system and most certainly I never consider such a system as great. I do not claim superiority in this point, it just means that I have heard so many components or systems in so many situations that I have learned to not pre judge and just listen in order to understand the sound and do it quickly.......live sound mixing is a good teacher.
I have not mentioned -80dB distortion but would say that IMD distortion sensitivity is much greater than THD sensitivity especially with 'dense' music and further noise floor level and spectrum sensitivity is greater than we give credit for. What these levels are is open to speculation and probably not definable because of many dynamic system interactions, but it is certain that one relatively minor change in a system can cause relatively major change in system sound output. I do wish that you would accept that THD numbers do not describe sound and that other people do reliably notice changes due to seemingly minor system changes.
But that is coaching.....😉.
Heard just this evening that "Obla Dee, Obla Da" was written as a tribute to Desmond Dekker. It's also the closing song in _Yesterday_ (recommended).
All good fortune,
Chris
I wouldn't know and didn't say that, as you well know. More dirty politics debating games. Bye.
If you can probe someone's brain to determine for sure what their ears transmitted to it, then sure, it is probably "real."
Since you can't do that, then the only data is what the person has perceived which is made up of many things beside what they "hear." We don't do controlled tests because we are stupid. We do them because they are necessary.
Well put, some of "the bored old men" (Mark's descriptor) are probably just here for entertainment and aren't very interested in proper tests and evidence apparently
Is there any other value? Interests are many but none to the actual sound reaching the ears. 🙂
It seems to me that is the main interest of those that are serious, "the actual sound reaching the ears"
Speakers don't get discussed much here and drivers are not easily DIY'd. Distortion figures aren't often published. But measuring at the listening position is very informative. Who can or wants to listen nearfield?
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