Thanks Ed, yes dielectric constants (cable capacitance value) will change according to insulation pigments but it seems that is not the whole story.Max, Enough of this nonsense that insulation color affects the sound of a loudspeaker cable. Just because almost anyone who tries can measure differences in cable capacitance due to different insulation colors, doesn't mean we can't poke fun at you for claiming to hear a difference.
Dan.
A hearing threshold is usually defined at the 50% correct response level and an adaptive procedure is used, starting at higher levels of the independent variable and lowering it in dependence of the correctness of the response (up-and-down procedures), so the 50% p(c) level is likely marking the threshold where the responses are randomly given.
This figure showed the responses of the trained listeners and if they were guessing at the lower ITD´s one would expect to have some distribution of corrects responses around the 50% level.
If, as in this case, all listener´s responses were above that level, it is quite unlikely that they were just guessing.
Iow, under the assumption that the hypothesis of random guessing at 2,x us ITD is true, the occurence of the observed data is quite incompatible to the random guessing hypothesis.
An intermittent fault is very tricky to find. Interesting post by Jn made me wonder whether it might be a system fault causing a momentary hearing reduction https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/eve...r-sound-21khz-listening-test.html#post5812110
In your opinion, of course.
Should be examined? It's been done already. "head in a vice" is a term referring to subjective listeners who do not understand the audible difference stemming from head position change when swapping components. A subjectivist listens to component A for a while, then gets up and walks up the component shelf and changes to component B, then comes back to the seat and listens again, not realizing that his head position isn't in the same spot but does realize that he is hearing something different. Then goes around claiming that he heard a difference and calling those who disagree with him "close minded".It´s time for a reminder that expressing clearly a hypothesis/question that experimentally should be examined is of utmost importance......
The head position discrepancy can be alleviated by quick switching between components using A/B switcher. However, those subjectivists see that as not enough time given for listening and start harping on the need for "long term listening". BTW, among those subjectivists, some are in audio business but in disguise.
Thing is it’s not intermittent.....it seems like it was a one time ‘flush’ or ‘morph’ for lack of better words, that’s why I used ‘hairball’ as a reference; if you’ve ever seen a cat cough one up it was a good analogy .....it now sounds as it should and actually tops expectations.
B4 the hairball, I was about ready to toss it.
I’m just guessing here but I suppose it was just part of the break in process?
They really should warn a feller bout such things.....I was actually giving it cpr! Was drumming like a bongo on the top of the case to the beat to get it rollin! LoL
I’m gonna respectfully disagree that minor repositioning will negate subjective testing ( I’m talking a few inches) for one your efforts should result in a wide enough sweet spot to allow for a few inches!
Another is I use a wheeled desk chair and can basically self center myself in the sound stage on every repositioning.
Besides I don’t even have to be in the sweet spot to hear most changes.
Well it was not ok.....then it was worse.... and now it’s better than it ever was.
Follow?
Hopefully it stays or continues to improve.....don’t jinx me!
"Head in a vice," is mostly a silly theoretical concept, IMHO. Who thinks JBL makes their trained and tested speaker listeners sit with heads immobilized? It is like saying vision testing is only valid if head and eyeballs are immobilized, since things look different from different angles.
For particular listening evaluation, sitting in the same spot with head in the same place can have some use, but so can turning one's head in different directions for each dut and walking around and listening in different locations and at different volume levels. It all depends on what works well when listening for some particular effect.
For particular listening evaluation, sitting in the same spot with head in the same place can have some use, but so can turning one's head in different directions for each dut and walking around and listening in different locations and at different volume levels. It all depends on what works well when listening for some particular effect.
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I make no claims as to what anyone can hear. However it is interesting that different color insulation of the same thickness does measure a bit different. I would not have thought to measure it if interesting claims were not made.
Really not an expected result, but it does explain some recent measurements.
Next up capacitance and dissipation vs frequency, actually a biggie in my length loudspeaker cables.
But the graph was from in ear speakers, are any of the studies free field listening?
It might be repeatable if listening for a particular effect. It is common when mixing records to walk around the corner and down the hall to see what it sounds like there. One can take the walk over and over again, and for its intended listening test purposes it is quite repeatable.
To put things into perspective this discussion arose from JC tweaking https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/the...wtorch-preamplifier-iii-2090.html#post5811379
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/the...wtorch-preamplifier-iii-2090.html#post5811379
Eds is pointing out the obvious that plastic fillers/pigments will change the permittivity (dielectric properties) of the insulation which causes change in capacitance value for given conductor spacing.
Such change in capacitance could alter amplifier>speaker behaviours according to degree of change of capacitance which in theory ought to be minor, so not much capacitance change if any is expected....???.
Dielectrics have other properties like absorption and loss, also the dielectric constant can vary according to frequency so changing pigments and fillers is going to change more than just the capacitance value.
I maintain that different pigments (and fillers) cause further changes in sound (ie the other insulation material properties plus more) and this is where the fights get started, Ed is sticking up for me before they start, thanks Ed.
Try calculating Cat 5 as four parallel pairs......has anybody measured it ?.
There is zinc oxide and zinc sulphate too in household usage cabling, other stuff in other cables....google is your friend.
These first three are 'friendly sounding' materials, there are toxic heavy metal compounds used as some colour pigments and I maintain these are not 'friendly sounding' and impart bad signatures.
Insulation and jacket/sleeve materials are partly how 'exotic' cables get their 'signature sounds', who knows what they use, good or bad.
Dan.
If whacking the top has fixed it you have 'fixed' a dud joint or oxidised connector.
The other thing to do is turn it off and wind the volume control back and forth fifty times to restore the pot contacts after long nil usage, same cycling for signal switches.
its awesome thats a 'thing' because i do it also (was just afraid to look stupid ever mentioning it).
What exactly can be determined by it?....i sometimes i'll get stuck where something sounds the same at lp but one is better around the corner i usually go with the latter....if sounds good both ways it must b better right?
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