John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III

[Evenharmonics]

...all over the Internet, entirely dedicated to put down any attempt to rely on ABX for identification or preference tests, disregarding how carefully and throughout they are designed (e.g. there is always the “missing positive control” BS used when everything else fails).

To my long years experience on multiple audio related forums, it is useless to argue about (which, ahem, I’m just doing 😀); you’ll always get back at best a theoretical word salad, lacking any practical suggestions to improve tests (if possible), if not nitpicking, obfuscating, etc... All while having little to no doubts and an unusual tolerance to casual (read: peeking) listening tests results. And always missing the “extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof” principle which is at the foundation of each and every experimental science.

To quote Jakob(X), “it is kind of sad”.

"Jakob(x)"

 

[scottjoplin]

Coincidence, I watched James May's series Cars of the People, Countach has rose jointed suspension that needs regular (800mile??!) rebuilds apparently

Really? It took about 30sec. to spot several posters bragging about owning stuff from some of the worst snake oil vendors around (in their sig lines).

Sad 🙂 Their sig lines, not the fact you looked 😉

 

[dreamth]

back to basics:
A simplified universal differential or single ended phono preamp
DIYHiFi.org • View topic - IDEA: Balanced variable gain preamp inspired by Wurcer Phono

 

[scott wurcer]

Sad 🙂 Their sig lines, not the fact you looked 😉

Telling everyone how many Synergistic Research products you have says a lot.

 

[Evenharmonics]

This endlessly war between so called objectivists and subjectivists is stupid and boring. And I don't understand why there is no way to end-it once for all.

But interesting enough for you to keep reading them.

You, pure objectivists, can't you stop to ask for proofs of an absolute truth that don't exit ?

I don't know about where you live but around here, people have the freedom to ask. You are not trying to control people, are you?

Why are-you so interested in the credibility of some reviewers, or the opinions of others that don't have the same taste than you ? When you want to build your hifi system, which is a quest of YOUR pleasure, why not trusting your own ears ?

I would trust my own ears when only the ears are used. But when the sight is also used, not so much.

When somebody says "I prefer this to that, for this or that reason", it is not an expression of an absolute truth, that, again, don't exists, it is only an invitation to figure out by yourself, if you are interested in-it. Then the only answer you can give, is "I don't feel the same", witch is equally valuable. Not: "Proof" !

What about when somebody says the following quotes?

Not exactly. Maybe more like once he knew which was which, his System 1 could construct new attributions of causation for the differences he heard.

The problem with listening tests like PMA offered is that one may hear a difference, but there can be many complex reasons for audible differences, and without knowing what was what to some extent there must always be some guessing involved as to what might be the cause.

The sentiment is well understood, and of course quite logical. It does assume the measurements capture all there is to hear. However, I would say that IME listening tests would reveal some differences, probably small, yet enough to successfully ABX, in the sound of dacs otherwise assumed to be transparent based on measurements looking better than CD specifications. I would actually be quite surprised if you couldn't hear a difference is sound quality playing a CD on the Marantz player vs through DAC-3. That being said, I have been surprised before and it could happen again.

Please, for once, try to read the previous with an open mind and honesty, and question yourself before to question others.

Do you do that or do you just ignore them?

 

[dreamth]

Evenharmonics vsTournesol vs...war
Game Over PLEASE!
too much noise !

 

[Markw4]

My general point here is that when large amounts of money are involved the customer's satisfaction can not be relied on as a measure of expert's skill, IMHO 😀

Skill at what? High end audio devices always come with a story. They are not necessarily designed to measure perfectly. They are designed to satisfy the market that the designer has found to exist.

 

[scottjoplin]

Skill at what? High end audio devices always come with a story. They are not necessarily designed to measure perfectly. They are designed to satisfy the market that the designer has found to exist.

Critical listening skill, it isn't necessarily attached to a specific product.

 

[Tournesol]

Really? It took about 30sec. to spot several posters bragging about owning stuff from some of the worst snake oil vendors around (in their sig lines).

Scott, as it takes usually one or two seconds to spot a snake oil vendor, it means they are 15 or 7,5 (there is always one that is half honest ;-) over there ?

I just read your phono amp thread. I can just say a word: congratulation on everything. Hat off. And to Dimitri and EUVL (and some others) as well. Despite I'm not interested in Phono amps at all, you made my day. A perfect example of how exchanges should be on a DIYaudio forum.

 

[Evenharmonics]

It is still painful to note that it is impossible on this forum (thread), which is, to my knowledge the only place on the internet, by chance, where audio professionals can exchange between each others, can share their experiences, learn from each others, talk friendly in order to share the knowledge they have or the little tricks they have found, without being permanently assaulted or approved by people who have neither the same qualifications nor the same experience in this field and who constantly come to us to give lessons.
Repeating all the time the same tales and quotes, "Proofs, ABX, evidences, claims" that we've known since probably before them, to give themselves a posture instead of trying to learn.
The autoresponders, it tends to annoy everyone not to mention it is against the rules.

Well, you can find that scornful, haughty, or whatever you want (it is not), I needed to say it.

To be positive, and because it seems that this situation will never end and is improductive, has already flee many talented or famous audio designers, may I ask the moderators to try to find a solution to solve this problem by special rules for this thread ?
It is not that we should forbid such remarks, nor withdraw the right to speak to anyone, but a thread titled "The myths of high fidelity and other snake oils" would seem more appropriate et should avoid a signal/noise ratio close to white noise.

Ah ha, change the rules as you go. In such case, there is no rule. 🙄

 

[Evenharmonics]

Evenharmonics vsTournesol vs...war
Game Over PLEASE!
too much noise !

Did you read 3 pages back when you concluded that? You should've tried 300 pages.

 

[Tournesol]

Evenharmonics vsTournesol vs...war
Game Over PLEASE!
too much noise !

I cannot more agree.

 

[gerhard]

Then why don't you do it?

 

[Tournesol]

Then why don't you do it?

Oh, please, he his in my ignore list and he knows-it. I only read-him when he is quoted, while he seems to be on my legs at each of my posts. And you can verify: I always quote the people I respond-to.
I was wrong to react to one or two of his attacks, I apologize. End about this subject, it is noisy too.

 

[scottjoplin]

Then why don't you do it?

Are you sure your sig line isn't something Jakob said?

 

[Tournesol]

High end audio devices always come with a story. They are not necessarily designed to measure perfectly. They are designed to satisfy the market that the designer has found to exist.

While the shining of the numbers is part of the story.

 

[dreamth]

Did you read 3 pages back when you concluded that? You should've tried 300 pages.

I don't have the energy for that...maybe it would be better to have 300 pages of schematics and technical discussions than 300 pages of useless wars...

 

[billshurv]

Coincidence, I watched James May's series Cars of the People, Countach has rose jointed suspension that needs regular (800mile??!) rebuilds apparently

Rose jointed suspension has its place on the fettling car. preferably where you can easily get to it.

.maybe it would be better to have 300 pages of schematics and technical discussions than 300 pages of useless wars...

Wrong thread for that. This is the 50* year circular argument thread.



*Not sure quite how long some people on here have been having some banter but certainly 40 odd.

 

[Evenharmonics]

I don't have the energy for that...maybe it would be better to have 300 pages of schematics and technical discussions than 300 pages of useless wars...

And you still judge a book by its cover. 🙄

 

[Evenharmonics]

Oh, please, he his in my ignore list and he knows-it.

I don't know for sure, especially after this event --> https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/the...wtorch-preamplifier-iii-1820.html#post5778712 --> https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/the...wtorch-preamplifier-iii-1820.html#post5778747

I was wrong to react to one or two of his attacks, I apologize. End about this subject, it is noisy too.

I see, so asking technical question is attack to you if you happened to disagree on audibility claim of audio electronics. Got it.