Lots of people care to, but the group who have the most to lose have a vested interest in not finding a test that works so that they can continue to peek and claim golden ears and quantum flooby.
Plural of anecdote is not data...
The old 'wife in the kitchen' one. Yeah of course he did, must have been the capacitors. And I bet you didn't test any of the ones you had removed to see if they had failed or were still in spec. Sorry. Old wives tail.
OK how about a 32 tone AP test SYclotron Audio | Capacitor Obsessions- The Zombie Awakes (edited to add data 2/21/18) . If you can think of a more like 'music' test that an AP can process I am sure he will do the honours. Or are your random Engineer's ears better than the best of Bruce Hofer?
Just to state clearly, there is no evidence that replacing a working electrolytic with anything else in a coupling application makes for an audible chance. decades old dried up and generally failed ones, yes, but working ones no.
Funny you say 12v. That's how much it takes to get physical movement going in capacitors.
Hi Tryphon,
Hardly, no. Not at all.
I have noticed you like to head down well worn paths though. Can we try a new topic that doesn't attempt to disprove well known facts then? Those topics would be far more interesting.
As far as the old "we can't measure these things" is concerned, that might have been true in the 70's, but we are in a new century and we can now measure these things very easily. Any current Keysight or Audio Precision will routinely show us what is going on below your threshold of hearing. And so does the RTX-6001 I (and many others) have. Maybe what you should try to do is to purchase one of these wonderful instruments and go look for yourself? It will make it much easier for you to evaluate equipment and to quantify them. Human hearing simply cannot sort equipment out close in performance over a long time frame. Instruments can do exactly that in a very small fraction of the time you require to recognise a tune.
-Chris
Hardly, no. Not at all.
I have noticed you like to head down well worn paths though. Can we try a new topic that doesn't attempt to disprove well known facts then? Those topics would be far more interesting.
As far as the old "we can't measure these things" is concerned, that might have been true in the 70's, but we are in a new century and we can now measure these things very easily. Any current Keysight or Audio Precision will routinely show us what is going on below your threshold of hearing. And so does the RTX-6001 I (and many others) have. Maybe what you should try to do is to purchase one of these wonderful instruments and go look for yourself? It will make it much easier for you to evaluate equipment and to quantify them. Human hearing simply cannot sort equipment out close in performance over a long time frame. Instruments can do exactly that in a very small fraction of the time you require to recognise a tune.
-Chris
...
Jn
Phenomenal cosmic powers...
itty bitty living space..
I always thought this was a perfect role for Robin and allowed him to go ... his usual nuts!
How Robin Williams’ Genie in Disney’s Aladdin Changed Animated Comedy Forever << Rotten Tomatoes – Movie and TV News
I was just reminded of and re-watched the great Invention of Golf the other day:
YouTube
Wow.
How Robin Williams became 'Aladdin's' Genie
"Did I see Robin doing any improvisation? That would be like saying did you see the pope wearing his vestments?" said Goldberg, who became the supervising animator on the character. "He turned into a game show host, an evangelist. Out came all the celebs -- Arnold Schwarzenegger, John Wayne, George C. Scott. We took the stuff back to Burbank and went ... 'Oh my God, this is gold... Will they let us put this in the picture?'"
I still miss him ... a month will go by and I'll think 'crap'
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Of course, your experience tells you that you are right, T. Just as my audio design experience does. Those who ignore our experience are doomed to make mid-fi designs.
Hi John,
Oh please! That again? Why?
We have already established that designers both measure and listen their designs - as do you measure also.
BTW, did you get in on the RTX-6001 GB? If you didn't, you missed one heck of a powerful instrument. It would also show you that which you cannot hear. 🙂
Best, Chris
Oh please! That again? Why?
We have already established that designers both measure and listen their designs - as do you measure also.
BTW, did you get in on the RTX-6001 GB? If you didn't, you missed one heck of a powerful instrument. It would also show you that which you cannot hear. 🙂
Best, Chris
If you read all the posts that followed yours they are typical. People care to argue about it, not fix it. To fix it people would have to get organized and work together, and they don't care to. Am I wrong?
Let's not get into another one of these discussions, many if not most modern recordings went through standard phantom power circuits or transformers as well as any number of 5534/32's.
The discussions of power supplies and all the ways unwanted signals get into the signal path are far more productive.
True. That and lots more. And they sound like it.
You think maybe if there were to be any interest in more accurate sound it should start with the recording folks and we can follow later?
I like old 50's mono recordings, not much in the signal path, actually some of the stereo ones from later in the decade aren't bad either
Well, may-be the explanation is I am worn myself ?
But, when i read things that contradict the experience of my long long life in the audio world, what do you expect-me to do ? Believe in other's words more than what I have experienced by myself so often?
I'm not a believer. I make my own opinions and am difficul to influence.
Are-we free to express opinions, here, that differ a little from the ones of this little "crowd" of stubborn and permanently agressive "objectivists" without to have to suffer personal attacks ?
My position is not comfortable. I rely on science (call the actual state of technical knowledge the way you want) as much i can ...
Spend a good part of my life in calculations, readings and measurements.
But I let a place for what some call ironically "subjectivity" IE sensual experience.
As I said before, I consider as totally stupid to rely *only* on measurements, when you want to chose a lens for *artistic* photography, *totally stupid* to rely *only* on measurements about music reproduction by the "make believe" systems we use, when their unique goal is the pleasure of our senses. Sorry, I use my ears and my preferences as the final referee to listen to the music I love. As I never felt in love for a girl because of her perfect "measurements".
It is just as disageable to be permanently suspected to believe in snake oil, to be accused to have all our professional experiences flawed under influence, than i could be, accusing this little bunch of what some have defined as "pure objectivist" who are rife here to be narrow-minded, blind believers in what they have learned in school, deaf and with no experience nor personal judgment and bad educated.
That I do not do, ignoring them.
Science is a tool, not another religion and respect for others a minimum.
But my main question is what the hell are they trying to find here, in a thread with "John Curl" in the title and no curiosity nor desire to discover anything.
To wage a religious war against the infidels ? To attack a famous designer to avenge their anonymity ?
Why don't they open their own thread: They could congratulate each other, warm up in their certainties, although I doubt that there are many people joining them. Because there is no fun in their world and a better place to learn: schools and universities.
well yes, those are the vested interests, which was my point. The other camp would love to try and fix this and do offer to do various things but never accepted.
Ref recordings there are many great ones out there, but usually not of the performances you might want to listen to. Pan_potted studio stuff is probably a lost cause
It seems to me Jacob2 knows a lot about it, and reading his posts on the subject I'm inclined to think it is almost an impossible dream
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