No, not really. maybe more complete... though I was hoping you would do that from the sentence before. I'll explain later.
Now I'm going to put on my crash helmet --- My take on theoretical physics and math..... mental masturbation. Practical, application oriented science is where my head is at. Applied science that can be put to use or solve a real need.
While I'm in the mood ---- why talk in Physics terms to non-Physics people? Would you want your Medical Doctor to tell you what's up in his medical language?
Being clear is a skill we can all do better at. K.I.S.S. is best with a wide and mostly lay population. Thats me included.
THx-RNMarsh
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Dr. Emitt Brown seemed to think so, it worked for him and Clara.
Me, I'm still trying to figure out how they got that striped toothpaste into the tube.
Jn
Phenomenal cosmic powers...itty bitty living space..
its later ----
If a 'real' and not perfect idealized Capacitor (C1) has a charge held in it and you transfer that charge to another capacitor (C2), the measured charge on C2 will not be as much as the charge was on C1.
This is because there is charge held in Cda of C1 that is not readily/immediately available due to the high value of series Rda.
Can you fill in between the lines? Hint: If the charge held in Cda is large enough, there May be audible consequences and measurable consequences.
THx-RNMarsh
If a 'real' and not perfect idealized Capacitor (C1) has a charge held in it and you transfer that charge to another capacitor (C2), the measured charge on C2 will not be as much as the charge was on C1.
This is because there is charge held in Cda of C1 that is not readily/immediately available due to the high value of series Rda.
Can you fill in between the lines? Hint: If the charge held in Cda is large enough, there May be audible consequences and measurable consequences.
THx-RNMarsh
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Okie dokie, this is hardly a theoretical physics problem. So you don't think much of Mr. Hawking, good for you? None of this DA stuff has any relevance to the underlying paradox, as stated 1/2 the energy is gone a few percent error in that is not relevant to the thought process in explaining what is going on.
It's true at times I forget first principles get in the way of explaining why quantum dots remove the veils and $400 capacitors bring the bloom back to the midrange, then there is the bass everything improves the bass.
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No, I forgot my glasses...
However, I believe in conservation of energy...
When a system ends up with one half of the energy after a connection has been made....
Nuff said
Jn
Ugh, what a day. The non technical stuff will be the death of me... Money, budget, man-hours, fte... Man I hate that stuff..
Give me engineering, or give me...vodka..
Jn
However, I believe in conservation of energy...
When a system ends up with one half of the energy after a connection has been made....
Nuff said
Jn
Ugh, what a day. The non technical stuff will be the death of me... Money, budget, man-hours, fte... Man I hate that stuff..
Give me engineering, or give me...vodka..
Jn
If the caps were connected forever, the charge would equalize, same as caps without DA.
I guess you could bring voltage coefficient into it.
I guess you could bring voltage coefficient into it.
Yes, I always want my doctor to tell me what's up in his medical language...
That way, I will understand what he is talking about. If a word or two is new, I will ask for clarification. But I will never walk away from a doc not understanding..
KISS is great. I've no problem explaining the difficult stuff...or, asking...
Anyone who does not understand, just ask.
On this site, there will always be someone who can explain. Never be afraid to ask...that is how I understand the latest technology, I just ask my children or grandchildren..
Jn
While I understand the work explanation in this case, it doesn't sit well with me for some reason. It is a kind of mathematical bookkeeping to say work was done. Suppose you want to redistribute the charges again into one capacitor. That would involve work once more, this work would have to be done to move charge into a higher potential energy state. So, is really good to call it 'work' to let it relax into a lower potential energy state? Maybe negative work. The energy is less because the charge density was allowed to relax into a lower energy state by moving apart. The potential energy was in confining the charges together. It would take positive work to compress them into a higher charge density state. This of course neglecting questions regarding the statistical location of charge.
And of course it can't happen all at once. Even if we pretend like resistance doesn't exist information can only move at C, and electrons our charge carriers have some mass which in the absence of resistance would mean we have essentially a lossless spring mass type of system where where the springiness comes from charge. I can never comfortably pretend things don't exist when they do, although I once learned how to do it uncomfortably to get the expected answers.
And of course it can't happen all at once. Even if we pretend like resistance doesn't exist information can only move at C, and electrons our charge carriers have some mass which in the absence of resistance would mean we have essentially a lossless spring mass type of system where where the springiness comes from charge. I can never comfortably pretend things don't exist when they do, although I once learned how to do it uncomfortably to get the expected answers.
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Please don't expend energy overthinking this problem. You apply first principles to a closed system the answer in detail is very complicated but in the end there is no other possibility.
I cheated and read this:
Energy Stored on a Capacitor
I don't know calculus, alas. But substituting the R for a CCS makes sense. No matter what the CCS current is, the power dissipated over the course of a complete discharge is the same. If the CCS current doubles, the discharge time halves.
So I will be Ignant McMuffin for a moment... If half the energy is always lost in a discharge between two capacitors, why then can a resonator ever ring for more than half a cycle?
Energy Stored on a Capacitor
I don't know calculus, alas. But substituting the R for a CCS makes sense. No matter what the CCS current is, the power dissipated over the course of a complete discharge is the same. If the CCS current doubles, the discharge time halves.
So I will be Ignant McMuffin for a moment... If half the energy is always lost in a discharge between two capacitors, why then can a resonator ever ring for more than half a cycle?
yes. They would eventually equalize. As the charge held in Cda is later released, also.
However, that isnt the normal condition with transient signals. Ala music.
THx-RNMarsh
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True. Paradox's can be included too in my book. Mental masturbation. Useless facts. Brain clutter. There are lots of useless facts in the world. Every field has them.
Useless Facts: 102 Best Facts You Can Impress Your Friends | The Best Place for Clean Jokes and Useless Facts!
10 Mind-Boggling Paradoxes | Mental Floss
THx-RNMarsh
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Sorry different problem, resonator implies inductive storage of magnetic energy. Simulators are of little use here since they don't include any radiative losses of the inductors.
And are we as usual not communicating or are you trying to just disparage a bit?
The issue illustrated by this example is that RLC circuit theory is a subset of reality and does not model what happens in the capacitor discharge case.
I suspect the reason folks have so much trouble with the concept is that they have an incomplete feel for voltage and current. If you possed the same issue with inductors where the energy is stored in a magnetic field, folks would have much less trouble with where the energy goes. Amusingly enough it is the same thing just for most folks a different mental model.
I suspected that's where you were going, but I don't think anyone wants to make the jump from balancing equations into the minefield of sub-clinical audibility.
Ed, did you read the papers? There are some interesting issues surrounding this problem.
Yes there are and I have spent a few years on that particular bit and what a few of the issues are. A very interesting correlated effect is what happens in compression combustion (Diesel ignition.)
By radiative losses do you mean magnetic coupling to EM waves going off into the distance? I would think that could be modeled, as well as any other losses, to some degree.
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