When the mentality around here is that everything sounds the same, measures the same, and all has already been invented, there's really nothing to talk about. As is evident.
Is anyone still playing with closed loop speakers - positional / motion feedback from driver diaphragm? Philips did some I think, a long time a ago, but the technology (sensor, dsp...) is much better now...
Still being looked at. Problem is still the same in that you cannot generally assumed pure pistonic operation from the driver across it's whole band so how can you measure where the diaphragm actually is cw where you want it to be.
A significant departure from the current topic, but here goes:
Yesterday I attended an SF Audio Society event featuring a demo/talk from Stereophile's Michael Fremer.
He gave both a talk composed of some interesting personal stories that he has experienced over the years, and an annotated audio demonstration of various selected vinyl records that he has found over the years that told a story in some way, about audio quality.
His examples either were jazz or pop recordings, primarily from the 1950's.
His first 'amazing' record was from a recording done in 1950 on one of the first Ampex tape recorders that had been lost in a record vault for many decades. It was a jazz group playing 'Mood Indigo' a popular jazz theme. It started so slow in tempo that many of us thought that it was a 45rpm record that was accidentally played at 33, but it wasn't, it WAS playing at 45rpm. Great artists, amazing fidelity, a real spell-binder. Much of the commercial sound quality was not there, just the individual instruments that took their turn in the recording.
Then, he played a different 'Mood Indigo' that was more uptempo that still sounded very good.
Then he did a Buddy Holly pressing that was so natural, that it was like he was alive and singing in the room. THAT is what we designers try for in hi fi reproduction. Then he played a 'remake' of the same song, that had been commercially processed, and showed what indifferent processing will change the sound dramatically (read commercial and boring).
He went on to play a number of other recordings, but these stood out, where the performers almost appeared in front of us. WOW!
Later, he and I had dinner together with a number of other audiophiles at a private residence, and he and I discussed a number of personal and general topics. I had a really good time, I learned some new info, but primarily I found him open and honest (a trait not always appreciated by manufacturers, including some that I have worked for) that has gotten him in trouble with potential advertisers in various magazines, if they thought this important. In any case, it was a pleasant and informing episode. Today, he went to visit another audiophile who is dying of cancer, hoping to get some of that audiophile's final wisdom while he is still capable of giving it. I hope to talk further with him again.
Yesterday I attended an SF Audio Society event featuring a demo/talk from Stereophile's Michael Fremer.
He gave both a talk composed of some interesting personal stories that he has experienced over the years, and an annotated audio demonstration of various selected vinyl records that he has found over the years that told a story in some way, about audio quality.
His examples either were jazz or pop recordings, primarily from the 1950's.
His first 'amazing' record was from a recording done in 1950 on one of the first Ampex tape recorders that had been lost in a record vault for many decades. It was a jazz group playing 'Mood Indigo' a popular jazz theme. It started so slow in tempo that many of us thought that it was a 45rpm record that was accidentally played at 33, but it wasn't, it WAS playing at 45rpm. Great artists, amazing fidelity, a real spell-binder. Much of the commercial sound quality was not there, just the individual instruments that took their turn in the recording.
Then, he played a different 'Mood Indigo' that was more uptempo that still sounded very good.
Then he did a Buddy Holly pressing that was so natural, that it was like he was alive and singing in the room. THAT is what we designers try for in hi fi reproduction. Then he played a 'remake' of the same song, that had been commercially processed, and showed what indifferent processing will change the sound dramatically (read commercial and boring).
He went on to play a number of other recordings, but these stood out, where the performers almost appeared in front of us. WOW!
Later, he and I had dinner together with a number of other audiophiles at a private residence, and he and I discussed a number of personal and general topics. I had a really good time, I learned some new info, but primarily I found him open and honest (a trait not always appreciated by manufacturers, including some that I have worked for) that has gotten him in trouble with potential advertisers in various magazines, if they thought this important. In any case, it was a pleasant and informing episode. Today, he went to visit another audiophile who is dying of cancer, hoping to get some of that audiophile's final wisdom while he is still capable of giving it. I hope to talk further with him again.
Yes, the old problem. I would have thought that by now you could get one sufficiently near to a piston, or where it's behaviour could be adequately modelled in the dsp in the system tat it would out perform any "open loop" speaker....
Well Bruno uses voltage and current feeback in the Kii to linearise stuff. He is cleverer that wot I am so must have had good reason. I have an old servostatic sub that I need to get running again which ISTR has an accelerometer for the feedback.
Yep. The world has stopped rotating for some. The conservative status quo must be saved from any perceived 'New Age' thinking, even if it is not.
Hi ridikas,
-Chris
So where did you pick that up from? Certainly no one has said that other than you. I do have to ask why you participate here given your mindset. Personally, I resent that you just insulted most of the members and certainly the site. You really ought to leave this place and frequent a site that has more of your ideals.
-Chris
Hi Joe,
You have to be careful in the way you deal with those who may not agree with your line of thinking. There is truth and fact in this opposing camp. While there is some truth in what you say, there are some practical issues that can't be overcome just yet. But to close your own ears and eyes is to live on that flat earth where time does truly stand still.
You are entrenched.
-Chris
You have to be careful in the way you deal with those who may not agree with your line of thinking. There is truth and fact in this opposing camp. While there is some truth in what you say, there are some practical issues that can't be overcome just yet. But to close your own ears and eyes is to live on that flat earth where time does truly stand still.
You are entrenched.
-Chris
I've had enough of you. Why don't you put me on ignore and stop replying to my every post. No one is more insulting or condescending than you. I can compile a list for everyone to see of your greatest hits.
Ridikas you need to take a break, Chris is none of these things and never has been.
There is a natural tendency for all humans to believe their view of reality is the one true one and everyone else sees reality erroneously to some extent or other. Also, there is a natural tendency to see the views and behavior of one's friends or people whom are liked in a positive light, and the opposite in the opposite case. All of us here happen to be human animals and unfortunately cannot be immune from human biases. Even knowing about it often helps little, as some biases can be hard or impossible to overcome. Research into debiasing continues though.
Last edited:
That's not fair. There's a several person gang here, who are allowed to bully those with different views. How is that okay? I have been building electronics since I was a little kid, DIY audio is right up my alley, yet I should go post elsewhere because my views don't align with these few bullies. In a forum which has thousands of members. I can't make sense of that.
Okay, how about we shake hands, virtually or course, back off on making very general critiques of others, and get down to some specifics of audio where maybe we can make some technical progress. Of course, that would mean not saying it can't work without giving it a try.
ridikas,
Then read your own posts and see how negative they are. You constantly insult the membership here while talking up JC. I'm not sure if he finds this embarrassing, but I know I would.
You like John's work. That's fine, many of us do. However there is more than one way to skin a cat and several other designers here are world class as well. Others work in industry where things have to work and if they don't you could expect a lot of money down the drain, or the death or injury to humans in the area. These folks deserve your respect. Well, everyone does actually, not just the experienced designers.
You want a different reception to your posts? Then examine yours and compare them to everyone else's posts that have a positive response. Post like that. You don't have to agree with the popular view. Just don't put other people down.
-Chris
Then read your own posts and see how negative they are. You constantly insult the membership here while talking up JC. I'm not sure if he finds this embarrassing, but I know I would.
You like John's work. That's fine, many of us do. However there is more than one way to skin a cat and several other designers here are world class as well. Others work in industry where things have to work and if they don't you could expect a lot of money down the drain, or the death or injury to humans in the area. These folks deserve your respect. Well, everyone does actually, not just the experienced designers.
And it's no carnival either! This isn't a game. You are in a community of like minded people. Many of whom may have a great deal more experience than you do. Insult them and expect a response.
Okay, me too, and probably most of the membership.
If you are going to insult people posting the way you have been, in a word, yes. I think you have the bully and victim roles reversed here. Either that or you're the kid who taunts bigger students and goes crying to the office when he gets a black eye. Probably often as he doesn't learn.
Obviously! You are looking at this from the viewpoint as a victim, which is the wrong way around. As I said before, if you are going to insult the membership here, expect a response. The response will be something you won't be happy with.
You want a different reception to your posts? Then examine yours and compare them to everyone else's posts that have a positive response. Post like that. You don't have to agree with the popular view. Just don't put other people down.
-Chris
- Status
- Not open for further replies.