That'll re-ignite other holy wars
, because I'm a tube and ESL guy, but here it goes:- Something I once wrote for a local audio magazine: tube amps have the capability to produce what I call "micro-dynamics": each note, when hit, has a defined "trajectory" in amplitude, tone, space and time: the note increases to its maximum amplitude while it projects itself in front of the plane where the musician/speaker is; then the note decays and is pulled back to behind that plane. Multiply this by the number of notes and the number of musicians, and you've got a great 3D picture of the sound. You get this in live unamplified concerts, to some lesser extend with good tube amps, but SS amps sound significantly flatter. Why? I don't know.
- From a more mundane 2D perspective, generally, lateral positioning of the instrument is handle adequatly by all amps. However, some amps, regardless SS or tube, place some instruments higher or lower (in a vertical plane) than other amps, especially in the higher frequencies, like cymbals and such. Why? I don't know. Once there was a session at an AES convention, by Pioneer I think, where the speaker demonstrated successfully that varying the frequency of a notch filter changed the perception of the height of the source. It works, as long as you move the notch frequency; that won't happen in a hifi system.
Couple of weeks back. Experiment 5 is booked to start in September in what we call 'reception' in UK. One year earlier than left pondian kindergarten.
This is well known and due to the way the human hearing judges height. A boost in frequencies around 8kHz will increase the perceived height. I understand this is part of EQ101 for studio mix engineers to allow them to move sounds around in the synthi soundstage.
There was an amazingly well done bit of out of phase mixing on a film I was watching friday night on the TV. It was an outside scene and the sound of birdsong was coming from so far to the right I thought a critter had fallen down the chimney again.
Thanks, that's a real relief. I'll fire them up and report back later, maybe this summer.
Cheers.
Jakob, can I just confirm, are we talking about another pathological case here or something that is likely to happen in normal CD playback?
Yep, easier to hear than to explain
Makes sense: so it's an amp/spk interface problem. One down, more to go...
That'll re-ignite other holy wars
- From a more mundane 2D perspective, generally, lateral positioning of the instrument is handle adequatly by all amps. However, some amps, regardless SS or tube, place some instruments higher or lower (in a vertical plane) than other amps, especially in the higher frequencies, like cymbals and such. Why? I don't know. Once there was a session at an AES convention, by Pioneer I think, where the speaker demonstrated successfully that varying the frequency of a notch filter changed the perception of the height of the source. It works, as long as you move the notch frequency; that won't happen in a hifi system.
I’m reading such comments for years now; nobody was ever able to explain how a 2D audio stereo source is able to define a 3D soundscape. That is, I understand left/right, but not up/down, of course as a function of the amplifier, assumed with a flat frequency response in the audio band. Useless to mention that according to my hearing an amp never changed the position of an instrument in the vertical plane, by changing the amplifier or the volume, for that matter.
Some invoked the “holography” buzzword, but me, a humble former scientist, I don’t see any coherent sources that would make for a similar interference effect (and that’s only one the reasons, to start with).
It's totally subjective but what billshurv said above makes total sense to me: boosting/cutting certain frequency range can create an illusion of different height. And the speaker's impedance vs frequency will change the amp's frequency response to some extend, and provoke that illusion under certain circumstances.
I actually applied successfully the sliding notch filter thingy to create special effects.
Just as a side note, maybe I need to adjust my vocabulary: to me, the horizontal plane, L-R, and up-down is 2D, add front back and it's 3D. Or am I wrong?
There is research on how frequency response of the human head transfer changes with the vertical position of a source. There are codes, including VST plugins that can use such information to simulate how sound changes with a moving source. For at least some people the illusion can be convincing.
Regarding amplifiers, I sort of would presume that frequency and amplitude dependent distortion in NGFB amplifiers could add harmonics perceptually brightening certain frequencies during higher level audio transients and excursions. If so, that may create an illusion of motion for some listeners.
Interestingly, guitarists look for a analogous effect from their various processing pedals. Sometimes they refer to the effect as 'swish' which is considered desirable to add some interesting and humanly expressive perceptual dynamics to sound of their guitars. There is somehow an impression of motion in the sound while the guitar strings themselves are emitting a more stationary (and boring) tone.
Regarding amplifiers, I sort of would presume that frequency and amplitude dependent distortion in NGFB amplifiers could add harmonics perceptually brightening certain frequencies during higher level audio transients and excursions. If so, that may create an illusion of motion for some listeners.
Interestingly, guitarists look for a analogous effect from their various processing pedals. Sometimes they refer to the effect as 'swish' which is considered desirable to add some interesting and humanly expressive perceptual dynamics to sound of their guitars. There is somehow an impression of motion in the sound while the guitar strings themselves are emitting a more stationary (and boring) tone.
You enjoy to argue, don't you ?
To answer you first argue, I had, during a time, a professional CD player with an indicator of errors. Often blinking, yes.
Other people can explain-you, here, the way Cross Interleaved Reed Solomon Code works and try to correct errors, and how, in absence of signal, interpolation works to replace missing bits by averaging them between existing previous and following ones. If it not too much, you will not notice difference. If it is too much, it goes between awful and drops or stop.
And you can find a CD player able to play a damaged CD that an other cannot.
Don't confuse the way an audio CD works with a data CD.
I do not advice you to glue anything on your own CD transport. I do not advice you to not glue anything either. You just do what you want.
Now, if you try, and after long lime listening of various CD, had made your own opinion, I should be interested (or not) to see your own conclusions.
It worked for me, on my particular CD player: I had keep the mod since this time. If not, I would have put things back in their original state. Or not, because no damage.
End about this subject for me.
The data is engraved in the plastic transparent layer. Coated with a thin aluminum layer after, which is covered with a decorative print (more or less solid). Fungus had eaten the coating, not the datas.You tried to hand paint bits back onto a CD?
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As Scott has pointed out before. Blinking means what, maybe one uncorrectable error per second? That isn't going to cause the effects some people attribute to things.
Hi, Dimitry, nice to see you here.
I can not remember the name of this studio device, equipped with a processor specialized in the spacialisation of sounds. In demo, it was able to give, even with a stereo headset, the impression that a plane passed over your head from front to back. To vary the heights of passage etc. very convincingly. It worked better on mobile effects than fixed in the space ;-)
I think was developed in collaboration with the research department of ORTF (Pierre SCHAEFFER) and sold by a Japanese company (Technics ?)
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Jan too, and SY, this discussion has never been rational. There are several levels of error with different codes the first one is correctable, which means what it says. The "making the logic work harder" and other nonsenses just won't go away. I don't know where that one or two interpolated bits per minute on a bad CD hide all that bass or how they veil all that midrange.
Have to agree. Those things are more likely caused by jitter and poor dacs. In the case of CD players, transport jitter may affect the output since in the old days and maybe even today to keep costs down there may not be an SRC to attenuate most of the jitter that accumulates before going into the dac.
Sorry, Scott, but you probably take a fantastic care of your CDs.
You are so definitive, sometimes, in your convictions and your reassuring certainties.
It must be pleasant (or not) to live in a world as square as yours ;-)
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And you aren't? Have you ever sat down for a minute and imagined how many bad bits per second it would take to seriously mess up signals at 100Hz or below.
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