Because "great audio systems" are luxury goods and a miserable cost to benefit. More fun to spend money elsewhere.
Perhaps many do, but:
1. Not everybody feels the need to brag.
2. Not everybody accepts the much beloved sales equivalence of “great audio system<->expensive”
3. Not everybody appreciates the “show me yours and I’ll show you mine” type of competition.
Richard, it is obvious that many of our critics here, have little or no use for quality audio, they just come here to throw rocks at the serious audiophiles and designers. It's sport for them.
What is a great audio system anyway? For all the complaints about objectivism here I think this is in the eye of the beholder, no?
I mainly use Sennheiser HD800s and a DAC + HP amp with very low distortion.
My neighbors would not appreciate me purchasing JBL M2s.
Don't think so, although it can devolve into that. In the past there may have been more truth to your intuition.
Right now a modified EMU 1820m. Will replace it with my own design if I ever get around to finishing it. Maybe I should just say low and not very low distortion, it's a CS4398 not an ES9038 or anything. It's also probably only really low distortion into a higher impedance headphone like the HD800 or HD6xx.
I have an RTX6001 but never got around to measuring it.
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Chris, you do not have a great system, IMHO. In fact you have a rather mediocre one, at best. I'm not trying to pick on you, but I think Richard raised an interesting point. In his case, audio and related electronics are his primary hobby (besides his semi-adopted girl now in college). Same here, although its been other things in the past. Maybe its simply that we have a statistical distribution of people interested in audio, not primarily a collection of uber-enthusiasts. Easy to imagine something like that being the case. Blowtorch is a unique place for engineer types to hang out and chat.
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+1 . I think nearly everyone here has a great system, just by their reckoning. Many of us are also music lovers first.
I personally would have far better uses for £30k than a pair of JBL M2s, doesn't make my system poor or me not interested in quality audio.
@Mark: Your last comment is somewhere between rude and elitist and NOT what I would expect from you!
Perhaps what I said was poorly stated, but was not intended in the way you seem to have perceived it. I know it would be more polite to say that anything, say , a crystal-radio, can be a great system if it fits what you like and want. That wouldn't make it an objectively great system, although it may be the perfect system for a particular person. To me, a great system is one that reproduces music considerably better than average (at least), for the particular type of source media. Something like that.
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Yes, I am sure one of the best headphones in the world coupled with a source that is capable of around 120dB DNR is a crystal radio.
You're free to have your opinion, however misguided it may be. 😉
The headphones would seem to meet some objective standard for greatness (like we engineers usually seem to be so fond of).
Regarding DNR, it is but one specification. Things get much more complicated with DACs. For example, very few take advantage of a clear step up in sound quality that comes from using an external interpolation filter which is free to use more than the stock number of taps, and a more relaxed transition band (possible due to pre-upsampling). It is more than a subtle improvement.
Sorry if we disagree. I'm just stating what I believe to be factually true.
Except it's not factually true. The CS4398 stock linear phase interpolation filter satisfies objective needs. The analog output measurements tell the story. If you didn't know what was inside the box you wouldn't have come to this (IMO) flawed conclusion.
Personally, I doubt you could pick out a Benchmark DAC 3 from any other decent source in a blind test. There are many more "highly regarded" pieces of equipment than the Benchmark devices that don't do their first-pass ASRC on everything, if you want to use that as a measuring stick. In fact, I think doing ASRC when you don't even have to (i.e. the USB input) is less than ideal.
I appreciate objective perfection, but ultimately your argument about audibility is just as weak as every other one presented in this thread on a regular basis.
I'm not hating on the Benchmark DAC either, because I think they do it right for the most part. I just prefer to do my own version.
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Can't settle this by debate. I would happily invite you over for a visit to see for yourself. 🙂 I could be wrong, but I suspect you could easily hear differences between a few DACs that all measure well, given brief coaching on what to listen for. I am near Pass Labs in California, if you ever have a chance. And, in person I am much more agreeable than my internet persona may appear to suggest.
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Wrong coast for me 🙂.
You're pretty agreeable as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure I come across as very cranky. Working on that, but it's internet only. 🙂
I've listened to a lot of components, including one DAC3 (although for about 30 min only), and I'm not too optimistic... but I'd always listen. For me, it's been quite a learning experience here since I joined - both in electronics and in psychology. I may not agree with a lot of philosophies here now, but there are definitely things to learn from competent designs.
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I find there actually are some surprisingly good products at quite modest prices. Not as good as some of the expensive gear but much better than most.
Now there is a lot of functional but not really impressive gear that hits the mass market.
I also get to often see the actual cost of gear.
Bill, M2s are not very expensive relatively speaking.
Now the secret to acquiring a great system for far less than most is to buy the ultimate whiz bang mark II after the mark III comes out. Or as I learned long ago the top model in a line ain't the best value, it is often the model one down in the line.
My other rule is that it makes no sense to have $$$ system and only 3 CDs, records etc.
I of course can build pretty much whatever I want. Amazing how many inexpensive parts can make a really impressive gizmo. (Under $50.00 is my idea of inexpensive parts as you rarely spend that much.)
Now there is a lot of functional but not really impressive gear that hits the mass market.
I also get to often see the actual cost of gear.
Bill, M2s are not very expensive relatively speaking.
Now the secret to acquiring a great system for far less than most is to buy the ultimate whiz bang mark II after the mark III comes out. Or as I learned long ago the top model in a line ain't the best value, it is often the model one down in the line.
My other rule is that it makes no sense to have $$$ system and only 3 CDs, records etc.
I of course can build pretty much whatever I want. Amazing how many inexpensive parts can make a really impressive gizmo. (Under $50.00 is my idea of inexpensive parts as you rarely spend that much.)
Ed: Relative to someone who, due to some self inflicted mistakes has 6 kids and 2 loads of alimony to pay M2s are expensive. Just checking and you can get them without the DSP and power amps so yes I could get a pair new for £11000 (which is $15000). Not silly and I have DSP and lots of amplifiers, but still more than my total life spend on audio so far (not music I hasten to add).
But there are many more priorities. The compromise of life. Plus I prefer to DIY where I can.
And yes I am tight. Spent monday night hammering head strip as damned if paying £30 for a preshaped block.
But there are many more priorities. The compromise of life. Plus I prefer to DIY where I can.
And yes I am tight. Spent monday night hammering head strip as damned if paying £30 for a preshaped block.
I had not listened to the DAC3, however spent some time doing multi to 2Tr with a DAC2 and I thought it was a good sounding DAC, I noticed nothing to complain about, but it was not in my native listening environment. I can hear the differences between DACs better using headphones or IEMs, which is how I decided to get the Auralic Vega. (AURALiC VEGA D/A processor | Stereophile.com) Like most other high-quality DACs it specs great, but just has an ease to it which I equate to very low IM or other dynamic distortion mechanisms...it just sounds very analog to me. YMMV.
Cheers,
Howie
Have to agree with Howie that the best DACs do come very close to analog. Unfortunately, it can be challenging to get that level of performance while trying to minimize cost. And, they still end up costing more than most are willing to pay for a dac. Blame human hearing, is how I see it.
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