John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III

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Mr Popa, I have to get accustomed to your gained diplomacy.

Any non-small signal audio project planned after HPS6.1 ?

Hey Jacco, yes, monster heat sinks are milled, drilled, threaded and assembled, output stage PCBs are ready, a peek preview here: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/338635-290-db-distortion-38.html#post5816895

This will be a dual mono powerhouse of at least 600W/4ohm and 800W/2ohm with under 0.005% distortions at all frequencies. 6 pairs of IRF244/IRF9240 per channel. Atmel MC controlled and protected (load, temperature, power supply), board and software are ready up and running.

Then there’s this project that I am contemplating for some time, for a dynamically biased power output stage (Class I) using a micro controller with integrated A/D and D/A. A proof of concept (breadboard style) is ready and works, however there are lots of fine details to figure out; it is much more complicated than I originally expected. Good thing, it’s almost all in software.
 
Thanks Demian
So it's not using a standard voltage regulator as a reference voltage but rather a specialist part LTZ1000 which is a temperature controlled zener & temp compensating transistors & ancillary circuitry all contained in a box for thermal stability

Does this not agree with what I was saying - for stability, maybe off the shelf voltage regulators are not upto snuff - batteries/supercaps seem to work better. Specialist reference voltage devices specifically designed as reference voltage parts probably work even better but I haven't seen these used in audio?

Maybe not up to snuff? The problem isn't that you claim to hear something. A lot of people claim that and most of them blame it on unmeasurable or not-yet-measured phenomena. You're claiming that yourself or others hear something, and you just pulled some BS theory out of a hat without even the slightest clue. Do you even know what the best available IC series regulators are? How about voltage references? If you don't even know what the relevant specs are, then why would anyone take you seriously when you claim it's not sufficient. Usually people complain when theories like this are untested. Yours is not merely untested, it's half-baked at best.

Did you think for even a minute about the fact that virtually every single piece of non-portable test equipment, no matter how expensive or exotic, has used worse parts than the newest LDOs for the past 40 years?

By all means, continue with your harebrained theories and audio fashion crap-du-jour.
 
Jakob just likes to post confounding nonsense whenever he sees an opportunity.

I've almost given up asking him questions


Yes, but we have little control over that and most of us can only work with what we've been given

Rubbish, you just have problems with straightforward questions and answers, that's obvious from your responses to people.

EH, I believe this kind of holy war doesn't make sense anymore. Everybody, including casual readers, can see Jakob2's position, he placed himself in the same team with MM, T, SV, M4, MB, MH, JC, Z, ToS, JoG, JR, etc... I agree, his stances are of the most toxic kind, since it wraps the BS in a thick crust of theoretical knowledge, but I think ignoring is still the best tactic.

Those who want to believe in the FUD spread around will do it anyway, nothing will change that.
I know, it's part of his business. As I mentioned earlier, his (and a few others that are also in audio business) persistence is fierce, just like others who have financial ties with the business. I run a business too so I know this, except that in my business there are legal filters that won't allow deceptive advertisement.

No you are not alone.
+1
 
I certainly don't claim my dac observations should stand unchallenged. I know for a fact that I am sometimes wrong, and also that my opinions are subject to change as new information comes in.
Only if you are receptive to new info. More often than not, when challenges (to your preexisting narrative) come up, you go into block mode via I-list *, or claim that you will do so.




* Ignore-list.
 
The austrian Karl Kraus once said:

Some statements are so wrong that even the complete opposite isn't correct.

(Blame me for the translation)


Neils Bohr said "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. A great truth is a truth whose opposite is also a great truth."


All good fortune,
Chris
 
Thanks, Markw4! Several seconds is a lot, but that applies to those fancy players, right? I don't need DSD, just regular PCM, 192k max. I'm on a Mac, so I won't be using ASIO and won't be recording, just editing. (I'm using DAW called Soundblade).

On a related note, as a reality check. A couple of videos on how the stuff you (we) are listening is REALLY made :D

YouTube
YouTube
YouTube

See the wood blocks to keep cables off the floor at 6:28:
YouTube

Now forum resident trolls can start ridiculing the studio owner. But check his bio before doing that! ;)

Best,

Having dealt with Bernie and others of his stature from a media mastering perspective I can tell you in general and specific they often hold beliefs which they do not understand. I'm not referring to anything specific in the quoted post, so don't get upset about the wood block thing.

Perhaps the most famous high-end mastering engineer I know of (I refuse to besmirch his memory) once demanded I master his CD without using EFM, because he said it was the prime source of jitter. When I replied that the CD wouldn't play back if I modulated the cutting laser with PCM directly, he told me I was an idiot and took his job elsewhere. Eventually we did get all of his CD work, but only after I "modified" our LBR to incorporate a Rubidium standard clock to assuage his jitter concern. (BTW, the resulting glass masters had the exact same jitter as with the regular TXCO clock...).

Then there are more technical producers like Alan Parsons, who I spent enjoyable time with as we glass-mastered his gold anniversary release of Dark Side of the Moon. Very savvy person, he had selected our mastering after getting test-cuttings done at various replication plants and had them tested at a lab, and he stated ours had excellent broad player compatibility and good specs.

Many of these people have good ears and/or judgment on how to make a recording achieve a certain statistical density which people find appealing, but in my experience few are very technical. I will not diminish their abilities; I cannot master recordings to sound as good as they do, or achieve a specific sound an artist wants like they can, but I understand how the machines work that they rely on far better than they do. To make good recordings and media takes every kind of engineers...

Just my $0.02 worth.
Howie
 
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Maybe not up to snuff? The problem isn't that you claim to hear something. A lot of people claim that and most of them blame it on unmeasurable or not-yet-measured phenomena. You're claiming that yourself or others hear something, and you just pulled some BS theory out of a hat without even the slightest clue. Do you even know what the best available IC series regulators are? How about voltage references? If you don't even know what the relevant specs are, then why would anyone take you seriously when you claim it's not sufficient. Usually people complain when theories like this are untested. Yours is not merely untested, it's half-baked at best.

Did you think for even a minute about the fact that virtually every single piece of non-portable test equipment, no matter how expensive or exotic, has used worse parts than the newest LDOs for the past 40 years?
oh dear, did you spit your dummy out of your pram?
By all means, continue with your harebrained theories and audio fashion crap-du-jour.
thank you for the advice, I will
 
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Thanks Demian
So it's not using a standard voltage regulator as a reference voltage but rather a specialist part LTZ1000 which is a temperature controlled zener & temp compensating transistors & ancillary circuitry all contained in a box for thermal stability

Does this not agree with what I was saying - for stability, maybe off the shelf voltage regulators are not upto snuff - batteries/supercaps seem to work better. Specialist reference voltage devices specifically designed as reference voltage parts probably work even better but I haven't seen these used in audio?

What operating voltage tolerances do you need for audio? 1%, .1%, .0001%.

The only battery that approaches a buried, temp compensated Zener for stability is a Weston cell and you cannot draw any current from one. I think the point is that you can get exceptional stability with pretty ordinary circuits. I don't see how a supercap with 50 mOhm would bring something that a 1000 uF EL or similar cap with 50 mOhm ESR would not. The supercap won't make the voltage more stable if its regulated and if it isn't that's another set of issues. It will hold up longer when you pull the plug (which could be bad in some cases).
 
What operating voltage tolerances do you need for audio? 1%, .1%, .0001%.

The only battery that approaches a buried, temp compensated Zener for stability is a Weston cell and you cannot draw any current from one. I think the point is that you can get exceptional stability with pretty ordinary circuits. I don't see how a supercap with 50 mOhm would bring something that a 1000 uF EL or similar cap with 50 mOhm ESR would not. The supercap won't make the voltage more stable if its regulated and if it isn't that's another set of issues. It will hold up longer when you pull the plug (which could be bad in some cases).
Stability read my best guess for why directly powering from battery/supercap sounded better than voltage regulators - it may be the wrong term/wrong theory but I've explained my simple test & it seems to me that there's some interaction happening between voltage regulator & digital audio devices which is detrimental to the sound when compared to directly driving from battery/supercap - stability was just my best term for it
 
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Paid Member
Stability has very specific meanings that don't really match what you are trying to describe. Perhaps you are looking for some sort of issue as the current changes in some way but the transient shown above represents a worst case. however its possible that a current ramp may show a nonlinear relationship between effective source impedance and load current. However they is there a circumstance where that will pass through to the output?

Usually I find that casual mucking around with caps actually just couples more and different noise into the ground network, often with unintentional interaction with the audio sharing those grounds. Fix the return paths and those all go away.
 
Usually I find that casual mucking around with caps actually just couples more and different noise into the ground network, often with unintentional interaction with the audio sharing those grounds. Fix the return paths and those all go away.

Exactly. Return paths of bypass capacitors are the biggest source of residual ripple related noise in otherwise perfect analog or mixed-signal design. The last and sometimes most difficult design step is PCB and bypassing optimization.
 
Thanks Demian - it may be the wrong term from a strictly technical perspective, granted.
Power & signal returns are separate
All I can say is maybe it's worth trying if people are curious rather than spending time arguing about wrong terminology or how stupid I am (not you Demian) - of course if arguing is the main hobby here then the site name is misleading
 
Hey Jacco, yes, monster heat sinks are milled, drilled, threaded and assembled, output stage PCBs are ready, a peek preview here: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/338635-290-db-distortion-38.html#post5816895

I used similar idea a few years back to make layout for 200W CFA.
It is also based on Cherry paper and different from your layout is that I put output transistors in one line to keep it on similar temperature in contrast of your layout where upper transistor will be on higher temperature (only if you mount it horizontally they will be on similar temperature).
I used alternated on N and P devices, parallel +/- power supply lines on both PCB sides.
The amp made for Richard is commercial amp with employed that idea.
BR Damir
 

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