I'll read the Wisa technical specification and see how it applies. The comments made about today's generation were rather appropriate I think. So many walk around now with streaming audio on their phones that that has become the norm, at least where I am looking. So to make something that would be a seamless transition when you walked in the door with your phone and the sound would instantly transfer to your in-home wireless speaker system would be a nice idea. I know the audiophiles here will speak poorly of Bluetooth connectivity and its limitations but I don't think there are WiFi enabled phones that I am aware of. So bluetooth for those wanting to use the phone as the connection and WiFi for those who are more technically advanced and would use a NAS type of system.
I think once we go to surround sound or distributed audio systems things have to change, but I have seen very little of that type of system in the wild at this point that isn't some mono type such as Sonos and Bose, etc. Lower sound quality for convenience of use.
I have read some threads and the problems with distributed systems and latency problems from room to room and other effects. We are on the cutting edge of a massive change in audio if someone can actually package this correctly at the right price point with high quality sound. I don't ever expect to see massive audio systems again like us old Troglodytes grew up with, things have been shifted by Bose and today's common thinking and those days are long since over for any mass market systems.
I think once we go to surround sound or distributed audio systems things have to change, but I have seen very little of that type of system in the wild at this point that isn't some mono type such as Sonos and Bose, etc. Lower sound quality for convenience of use.
I have read some threads and the problems with distributed systems and latency problems from room to room and other effects. We are on the cutting edge of a massive change in audio if someone can actually package this correctly at the right price point with high quality sound. I don't ever expect to see massive audio systems again like us old Troglodytes grew up with, things have been shifted by Bose and today's common thinking and those days are long since over for any mass market systems.
I just found this SoundSeeder Music Player and I have it working, no fuss, no bother.
This app installed on two Android phones allows allows transmission from one phone to the other.
Dan.
This app installed on two Android phones allows allows transmission from one phone to the other.
Dan.
You find me in agreement with all you say there.
Pavel is a serious EE and he is carrying out distortion investigations.
I am not an EE, so my interest is focused in frequency response shaping that is feasible with highish Zout amps.
(changing the amp Zout and tailoring the impedance of a loudspeaker driver by acoustical and electrical means gives a lot of playground).
The most promising application for such an approach, is with a wide band speaker driver in single-driver loudspeaker or as the main wide band driver with woofer and tweeter as helpers in a multi-driver system (each driver then with it’s own amplifier).
I am interested in the schematic of your variable Zout little amp (when you’ll find it)
George
What were you saying in 1979? IIRC selling stuff for LP's. Ironic where this comes up, why don't you tell John he is wasting his time?
Latency is an interesting phenomenon. The Kii has normally 90ms latency. But if you want to use it with video, there''s a tiny switch to set it to 1.003ms. Of course, at that moment you loose the lf directivity as a lot of the DSP processing is bypassed.
But what I found is, when I put on the TV I often notice a latency between sound and vision, but that after a few seconds my brain apparently sunchronises itself and I no longer notice it at all.
Anybody has a similar experience?
Jan
I build Bluetooth powered speakers as a "lifestyle" product. BT is OK and is perfect for the intended market, but sound quality isn't stellar. Not bad, but it's not for an audiophile crowd.
Jan,
Can't say how many times I have noticed the video and audio not matching while watching TV. Like you after awhile I just stop noticing the effect or have to change the channel.
Pano,
the audio quality of the BT is something I have thought about a bunch. For many casual listeners I don't think they either care or have ever heard a good stereo system. So having both WiFi and Bluetooth seems a reasonable solution to cover both types of people. I don't really think a lot of people are going to want to pay a premium price over a simple cheap wireless speaker if they aren't serious music listeners but it would be nice at times for background music to just have your phone as a simple music server. When you want to go to serious sound quality switch over to the WiFi and a better source.
From what I have read I know that Bluetooth has much greater working distance than what Max has stated, that isn't really an issue but somehow that statement seems rather grim about BT connectivity.
I'll contact Libre as I just read something the other day about some newer applications that included both receiver types on what I assume is a single chip solution.
Can't say how many times I have noticed the video and audio not matching while watching TV. Like you after awhile I just stop noticing the effect or have to change the channel.
Pano,
the audio quality of the BT is something I have thought about a bunch. For many casual listeners I don't think they either care or have ever heard a good stereo system. So having both WiFi and Bluetooth seems a reasonable solution to cover both types of people. I don't really think a lot of people are going to want to pay a premium price over a simple cheap wireless speaker if they aren't serious music listeners but it would be nice at times for background music to just have your phone as a simple music server. When you want to go to serious sound quality switch over to the WiFi and a better source.
From what I have read I know that Bluetooth has much greater working distance than what Max has stated, that isn't really an issue but somehow that statement seems rather grim about BT connectivity.
I'll contact Libre as I just read something the other day about some newer applications that included both receiver types on what I assume is a single chip solution.
Yes, it's horses for courses. BT is fine for the majority of products. I have found the range to be about 30 feet, as per spec. Sometimes farther, but it's not reliable. The iPhone is a champ for easy of use with BT audio. Windows 10 is clunky and aggravating.
I'd love to have a good wireless, non compressed system. For bigger HiFi systems it would be great.
I'd love to have a good wireless, non compressed system. For bigger HiFi systems it would be great.
As soon as hipsters realize?
I can't wait to see them que up their vinyl and think to themselves, "damn and I can do it all wirelessly to my speakers, life is sweet".....
The biggest problem they face is children/slave wages and the world full of shitty monster-sized sansui/pioneer/etc speakers with 15in pussy drivers in them that need to fit into whatever hole in the wall a barista can afford.
I can't wait to see them que up their vinyl and think to themselves, "damn and I can do it all wirelessly to my speakers, life is sweet".....
The biggest problem they face is children/slave wages and the world full of shitty monster-sized sansui/pioneer/etc speakers with 15in pussy drivers in them that need to fit into whatever hole in the wall a barista can afford.
Pano,
From what I've read there are three levels of BT transmission distances. The cheapest and most common obviously has the shortest range but I have read of some that are supposed to be good up to at least a hundred feet or more. It is the sound quality that is the most important issue once you go from just background music to critical listening that I am thinking is most important between the two transmission methods, BT and WiFi.
From what I've read there are three levels of BT transmission distances. The cheapest and most common obviously has the shortest range but I have read of some that are supposed to be good up to at least a hundred feet or more. It is the sound quality that is the most important issue once you go from just background music to critical listening that I am thinking is most important between the two transmission methods, BT and WiFi.
Wireless is quite the rabbit hole to descend.
Bluetooth Classic (the only option for real audio) is nominally 10 M range but Apple's AAC implementation will almost double the range with an even bigger latency. The default codec, sbc, is what you would expect for "free". The other options, AAC and Apt-X have a per unit license and do sound significantly better. But Apple is AAC only and only some Android devices support Apt-X. Some TV's have adjustments to allow syncing video with BT audio (the BT latency can be over 100 mS and is different every time the link is established).
Bluetooth Low Energy will just barely support a voice link with big delays. It does have a longer range of 30M or more.
WiFi has a number of competing solutions from Allplay to Playfi to Sonos etc. The big player today is Chromecast Audio. Its hard to complete with $35 retail and multiroom sync with some high res support. It even has digital out. Even when its included on a platform the cost increment at retail often exceeds $35. There are DLNA players for Android that support Chromecast. Its not really seamless but compared to getting a turntable running its zero overhead and works. I have heard that google has sold 1.5M of them already.
There are a few proprietary solutions like Sonos that use the WiFi bands but that's becoming an afterthought and not a growing opportunity.
Bluetooth requires a lossy codec. Its bandwidth is just wide enough for a 16 KHz sample rate voice communications using a telephone codec. There is no way to cram uncompressed audio over the link.
WiFi has a number of options that can get you bit perfect audio over the link. but plenty of competing standards.
Pick your poison or provide for 1A usb and a toslink input for a Chromecast Audio module and move on (hint, hint!).
I used to have a digital set top box that drifted out of sync sometimes. It interested me to note how far it could get out before it really annoyed me and I had to swap to a different channel and back to get it back in sync. But I don't watch critically except at the cinema, and there I am more annoyed by the overdone LF in our local theatre. Dunno how much is bad cal and how much is the producers wanting the audience to throw up cos bass is rad?
Bluetooth 4, which I use, is compressed but not bad. It can get phasey sounding if you are transmitting a signal that was already heavily compressed, like Netflix audio.
I'm currently listening to Amazon Music on my old Clairtone console, via Bluetooth over from the laptop. It's very enjoyable. It's not serious listening room, high resolution stuff, but just fine for living room music on a lovely old console.
I'm currently listening to Amazon Music on my old Clairtone console, via Bluetooth over from the laptop. It's very enjoyable. It's not serious listening room, high resolution stuff, but just fine for living room music on a lovely old console.
I was being conservative about 5m range.
I know the spec is 10m, and BT does indeed work out to 10m but ime becomes flaky, and people movement can cause temporary dropouts.
Add to this lossy data compression and you have a path suitable for BGM, but not full quality reproduction.
Dan.
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