I thought this might belong in the blowtorch thread,and a few who visit here might sympathize and understand. it was an email exchange with someone who was looking for product details, fine details, so they could talk the product up to customers. Perhaps you might sense my frustration. (ahem)
The conundrum that is the high end market:
Not everyone in the business is like that, thankfully. It is probably a minority that are the problem. But, when you've got something new, it's like being covered in blood in a forest of hungry animals who prefer to kill the host and source - just for the meal ticket cardboard mimic attempt. Very sad, very disturbing.
The conundrum that is the high end market:
Not everyone in the business is like that, thankfully. It is probably a minority that are the problem. But, when you've got something new, it's like being covered in blood in a forest of hungry animals who prefer to kill the host and source - just for the meal ticket cardboard mimic attempt. Very sad, very disturbing.
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KBK,
I think that there are more than a few of us who have been in that position. You may want to help others or explain what you are doing and then they steal whatever it is you have worked so hard to create. If you have nothing to lose it isn't a problem but if you are trying to create something special it often pays to keep things to yourself. This is also why I constantly wonder about filing for a patent, once you have done that you have disclosed your ideas and then others just look for a way around what you have disclosed or outright just steal the idea knowing full well that the legal fees are so high many can't defend their patents let alone they just take things offshore and produce a copy and just don't care what you do.
I think that there are more than a few of us who have been in that position. You may want to help others or explain what you are doing and then they steal whatever it is you have worked so hard to create. If you have nothing to lose it isn't a problem but if you are trying to create something special it often pays to keep things to yourself. This is also why I constantly wonder about filing for a patent, once you have done that you have disclosed your ideas and then others just look for a way around what you have disclosed or outright just steal the idea knowing full well that the legal fees are so high many can't defend their patents let alone they just take things offshore and produce a copy and just don't care what you do.
khm, your use of the words "defend your patent" is confusing to me. If someone infringes and you sue, you're not "defending" anything, you're the plaintiff. If your patent is worth anything, there's little to no cost in doing so- plaintiffs can use contingency arrangements. All costs are on the defendant.
This assumes that your patent is worth anything and actually valid.
This assumes that your patent is worth anything and actually valid.
Sy,
I guess if you know an attorney that will take on those types of patent cases you are covered, but from my understanding the typical patent case can cost as much as a million dollars in court costs. I had done a design just awhile ago that someone else was paying me and though it was new someone else had beaten them to first to file, the other party wouldn't license the patent and they weren't going to do anything like I designed themselves. One of the people I was working with was actually a very high level attorney himself and he just said it isn't worth the bother to fight patents in court even if the patent had other disclosed applications that should have made the patent unenforceable. not worth the money to make the fight. I was 90% of the way through the mechanical design and had the industrial look complete when they pulled the plug on the design. It was an attachment for a cell phone.
I guess if you know an attorney that will take on those types of patent cases you are covered, but from my understanding the typical patent case can cost as much as a million dollars in court costs. I had done a design just awhile ago that someone else was paying me and though it was new someone else had beaten them to first to file, the other party wouldn't license the patent and they weren't going to do anything like I designed themselves. One of the people I was working with was actually a very high level attorney himself and he just said it isn't worth the bother to fight patents in court even if the patent had other disclosed applications that should have made the patent unenforceable. not worth the money to make the fight. I was 90% of the way through the mechanical design and had the industrial look complete when they pulled the plug on the design. It was an attachment for a cell phone.
I don't know any patent attorneys who WON'T take on a plaintiff's case on contingency where there's a valid patent and significant revenue involved. The guy who's usually screwed is the defendant, since there's no contingency option available.
Well I guess we would have ended up being the defendants then as someone else had the patent and it would have been a fight to prove they shouldn't have gotten one. You have seen them I'm sure, something that shouldn't have been awarded, but try and get the patent office to rescind a patent that they have awarded.
There is near always a way to work around a Patent.
I did-it myself in the 70.
Pierre Clement had a patent for the first 'radial' servoed strait arm. I had the idea to place a patent for the company i was working for, where the arm was the same, but the plate was moving under it, instead of the arm itself. Plus some differences about the error detection system.
patent and secret aren't compatible notions
to protect an idea with a patent you have to fully disclose it - anyone may read the resulting issued patent
and except for the DMCA carve outs for software copy protection, anything that can be discovered in a "tear down"/reverse engineering analysis of a purchased product is considered to be published openly
if not patented it is prior art, common property of humanity free for any to use
to protect an idea with a patent you have to fully disclose it - anyone may read the resulting issued patent
and except for the DMCA carve outs for software copy protection, anything that can be discovered in a "tear down"/reverse engineering analysis of a purchased product is considered to be published openly
if not patented it is prior art, common property of humanity free for any to use
jcx,
That's just it the patent office is issuing patents for previously disclosed ideas all the time, things are getting through that shouldn't but are. Then you have to fight to prove that the patent shouldn't have been issued. That costs real money to do.
That's just it the patent office is issuing patents for previously disclosed ideas all the time, things are getting through that shouldn't but are. Then you have to fight to prove that the patent shouldn't have been issued. That costs real money to do.
Exactly. As the plaintiff, you have most of the advantages, even if your patent is ridiculously poor. I was part of a company that lost nearly a million dollars defending against someone with a patent for which there was tons of prior art. The idea that you can walk into a judge and show him the prior art, then go home is a common one, but not accurate- that million was spent prior to a judge ever seeing any of the prior art and ruling on it. He did throw out the case and invalidated the plaintiff's patent, but we were still out a million bucks in legal fees. The plaintiff lost nearly zero, despite us winning on summary judgment.
So... if you have a great idea and it's actually worth something, patent it. Your fondest wish is that a large corporation rips it off- contingency fee attorneys LOVE when the defendant has deep pockets.
Reminds me of this:
Victory Lap for Ask Patents - Joel on Software
I wonder if this can be done for other kinds of patents?
Victory Lap for Ask Patents - Joel on Software
I wonder if this can be done for other kinds of patents?
I was more referring to KBK's complaint
on bad patents I'm no expert but aren't most courts short of patience for people persisting in suits when the facts are against them from the start, they have been effectively informed
hopefully clear cites, the evidence you show that the patent is invalid, have provided to the litigious patent owner creates a risk to them of being assigned court costs
Blue Jeans Cable Strikes Back - Response to Monster Cable | Audioholics
on bad patents I'm no expert but aren't most courts short of patience for people persisting in suits when the facts are against them from the start, they have been effectively informed
hopefully clear cites, the evidence you show that the patent is invalid, have provided to the litigious patent owner creates a risk to them of being assigned court costs
Blue Jeans Cable Strikes Back - Response to Monster Cable | Audioholics
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Yup, I mentioned before someone got a patent on the CFA decades after Comlinear and tried to sue the entire IC industry. We even had prior art in the form of one of Jim Williams' app notes that read word for word onto his claims. He also had allowed the maintenance fees to lapse and told the judge that he failed to pay because he could not leave his house for fear of his life. He actually ended up getting a $100K or more as a nuisance payoff.
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Patents for small companies or individuals just aren't worth it. Keeping the knowledge gained secret (if you can) is better.
I was ripped off by people I knew and respected. They just ignored my written complaints when they copied my patent to make a commercial device. There are always 'loopholes', no matter what SY thinks.
I was ripped off by people I knew and respected. They just ignored my written complaints when they copied my patent to make a commercial device. There are always 'loopholes', no matter what SY thinks.
Because Sid Harman really hated litigation, the company settled all manner of suits by writing a check. It drove the chief corporate counsel crazy, as many suits were absurdly frivolous.
Not a patent-related one, but someone who was laid off sued for stress and age discrimination. If there was anyone within the organization of whom less was demanded I couldn't discern. But in time he got a check, and showed up briefly in a shiny new car.
And he found a job right away. Later we crossed paths at another company for which I consulted, and he didn't remember who I was. He was asked to provide information about a project and was nominally cooperative but completely unresponsive. A bit later a crisis provoked analyses which indicated that very basic rudiments of his field had been somehow forgotten.
In the patent arena, a certain Massachusetts company famous for filing on prior art notified Harman that a product was infringing. The Harman response was that H was basing the design on another patent, that the B patent was prior art, and that if B persisted in legal action H would sue for reexamination. They went away.
Not a patent-related one, but someone who was laid off sued for stress and age discrimination. If there was anyone within the organization of whom less was demanded I couldn't discern. But in time he got a check, and showed up briefly in a shiny new car.
And he found a job right away. Later we crossed paths at another company for which I consulted, and he didn't remember who I was. He was asked to provide information about a project and was nominally cooperative but completely unresponsive. A bit later a crisis provoked analyses which indicated that very basic rudiments of his field had been somehow forgotten.
In the patent arena, a certain Massachusetts company famous for filing on prior art notified Harman that a product was infringing. The Harman response was that H was basing the design on another patent, that the B patent was prior art, and that if B persisted in legal action H would sue for reexamination. They went away.
B did win two biggies, the resonant woofer and the flared bass port. How? No clue. I have read some of their patents, very good lawyers getting them royalties on stuff not in their patents!
My current favorite is https://www.google.com/patents/US20070297624
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