That's already an attack, Christophe
It's already a culture in an audio society where some group of people demand technical explanation for every claims, and if the explanation doesn't justify technically speaking, bad credit will be put on those who make the claim.
Even if you sincerely didn't put the bad credit (for example because you don't understand psychology) for the explanation, somebody else will, and that means a (indirect) pressure to the ones who has to answer to your question.
For some people, it is hard to believe that to some extent ears can go far beyond measurement. It does look like a stupid statement for some. But personally I think that those who think it is stupid just have no idea. May be the same from the other side. But one side never discredit, while the other side always will.
May be you should learn from your debate with Elvee regarding slew rate or CFB amps. Most theorists will stand behind Elvee, don't you think so? If you continue your debate you might humiliate yourself. That's because you are trying to explain difficult subject where no one supposed to be able to do it successfully.
There is one question from VladimirK you haven't answered. You think that cable difference is simply about capacitance and can be measured. VladimirK stated implicitly that if it is that simple then we should be able to make a formula for the best cable. Are you ready to come up with such a "formula" and proof this in a (blind) test? Unfortunately blind test is not that effective to proof anything...
Christophe, I think you have very good ears, and you can very well relate a phenomena with theory. But there could be better ears, and, if our theory were advanced enough, we might have lived on Mars already.
In simple words, those relay thing is simply about "ear observation" which for some is very hard to deny.
The two can cross over. There is almost no disagreement that what a purely "engineering" approach achieves doesn't satisfy the audio freak, and the latter's point of view frequently baffles the former. Which means, to me, insufficient information, knowledge about everything that matters. As a counter example, there would be very few who would dispute that aeronautical engineers know just about everything about everything that guarantees that a plane will fly safely. Yet, they still learn something new even after all these years, some small pocket of ignorance is exposed now and again, because of some unusual situation arising. And so the process of improving understanding continues ...
Frank
Like here, you have successfully made fas42 look like a clown. He hasn't realized yet
Jay, every conversation that possibly leads somewhere fruitful is worthwhile pursuing; it's all part of the Yellow Brick Road ....
Frank
Yes, true. Unfortunately not everyone have the same spirit.
Jay ! I was VERY sad, reading your so nice answer.
Communication is impossible ?
Don't we have words to try to describe even our feelings ?
Are-we all doomed to live in a desperate loneliness ?
What i asked John ? If he can provide numbers, or, if nothing to see there, words to describe what he feel for each option: lose of details, lose of dynamic, curtain between the source and him, noise, lack of fluidity, whatever. His experience to share.
When we are in recording studios, we can communicate with musicians on very subtitle details of music, including the mood in witch they want to play. And we can love each others across the mixing desk, tenderly.
When we have to deal with some new components, or a new idea of topology, there is always advantages and inconveniences. So, it is useful to make clear the pro and cons.
Yes, i was injured in this debate about VFB cs CFB.
Long years before, i asked myself the reason of my frequent preference for CFB, while no technical incomes i knew gave me an explanation.
Made a lot of personal researches to try to get answers and understanding.
Came in this thread, very naive, to share (learn and share what i knew). And whatever i proposed as shematics to compare and explore, i was accused to cheat my schematics by some voltage feedback addicts, as i was just trying my best to get and provide more incomes, avoiding as much as possible to compare apples with oranges.
Communication is impossible ?
Don't we have words to try to describe even our feelings ?
Are-we all doomed to live in a desperate loneliness ?
What i asked John ? If he can provide numbers, or, if nothing to see there, words to describe what he feel for each option: lose of details, lose of dynamic, curtain between the source and him, noise, lack of fluidity, whatever. His experience to share.
When we are in recording studios, we can communicate with musicians on very subtitle details of music, including the mood in witch they want to play. And we can love each others across the mixing desk, tenderly.
When we have to deal with some new components, or a new idea of topology, there is always advantages and inconveniences. So, it is useful to make clear the pro and cons.
Yes, i was injured in this debate about VFB cs CFB.
Long years before, i asked myself the reason of my frequent preference for CFB, while no technical incomes i knew gave me an explanation.
Made a lot of personal researches to try to get answers and understanding.
Came in this thread, very naive, to share (learn and share what i knew). And whatever i proposed as shematics to compare and explore, i was accused to cheat my schematics by some voltage feedback addicts, as i was just trying my best to get and provide more incomes, avoiding as much as possible to compare apples with oranges.
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no you simply didn't follow through - posted broken sims, plead fatigue when others put in the effort to try your posted sims and asked for models, corrected .asc, refused to post source for you reply sims, plots you claim proved your point...
... my exploaration of your examples did come to the conclusion that you could see better performance with CFB - where you also insist on low global loop gain
I am in fact a fan of of the TPA6120/TH6012 CFA amp in composite circuits for audio line/dynamic headphone amps
... my exploaration of your examples did come to the conclusion that you could see better performance with CFB - where you also insist on low global loop gain
I am in fact a fan of of the TPA6120/TH6012 CFA amp in composite circuits for audio line/dynamic headphone amps
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I've never seen AC coupled clocks before
I'd caution against using caps for doing level shifting - assuming that's the reason you're using those 10n's at the input to the counters. Why not use the HCT version of the 4059 (which has a lower logic threshold and hence compatible with 3V3 drive very nicely) and use a wire instead?Not everyone is as strong as you are. About your question to JC, do you have an idea about his likely answer? May be I'm not so knowledgeable that I think I know. And that will put him in a not-so-useful position. From psychological point of view, if you know exactly that the answer will put JC in a difficult position, then asking the question is an attack. This is a common trick used by people here. So, "cold" answer from him is natural. May be you can build different atmosphere but for that you need to prove your persistence.
May be JC has been injured more. May be Hugh Dean also. May be PMA also
Fas4, i was in an angry mood, forgive meLike here, you have successfully made fas42 look like a clown. He hasn't realized yet
I had said i had yet noticed a little distortion using static relays. And provided a solution i HAD experimented successfully to address-it.
And your answer was "impossible", contradicting my experience.
"Did you tried yet this solution ?" would had been a more correct answer.
Oh, no, it can be perceived as aggressive too.
I cannot imagine how i can put THE John Curl in a difficult position asking a question. When i do not agree with him, i make it clear, like about burning cables, and harassing virgins. Well, it will be an endless war between 'scientists' and 'subjectivists' and John Curl is a renegade from our righteous crusade
.
No worries ...I had said i had yet noticed a little distortion using static relays. And provided a solution i HAD experimented successfully to address-it.
And your answer was "impossible", contradicting my experience.
"Did you tried yet this solution ?" would had been a more correct answer.
Oh, no, it can be perceived as aggressive too.
. Everyone is always coming from the perspective from their own, previous experience -- especially me, .Inserting a highly non-linear, in some aspect, element as part of the feedback loop sounds pretty scary to me, the non-linear qualities always have to be totally in sync, at all times, under all conditions. Personally, I wouldn't put my money on it, but if it has worked for you then that's all for the good ...
My way would be to totally bypass such an issue, by using a very different technique, or device type ...
Cheers,
Frank
Esperado
One problem is that if someone doesnt know, they may feel a sense of compromise unless the solution is at least perceived as superior.
If someone who doesnt know wine is asked to bring a good bottle to a dinner party they will likely buy based on price, and even then feel remorse because they compromised based on affordablity.
When designing I like to pretend the end use is a life saving device say a pace-maker or the like (for yourself), the trick is knowing that the you need to finish (and afford it) before you die.
Thanks
-Antonio
One problem is that if someone doesnt know, they may feel a sense of compromise unless the solution is at least perceived as superior.
If someone who doesnt know wine is asked to bring a good bottle to a dinner party they will likely buy based on price, and even then feel remorse because they compromised based on affordablity.
When designing I like to pretend the end use is a life saving device say a pace-maker or the like (for yourself), the trick is knowing that the you need to finish (and afford it) before you die.
Thanks
-Antonio
Reminds of the little dinner party I attended when Bob Dylan brought a bottle of 1970 Mouton Rothschild. Unfortunately the year was 1974 and the wine was ridiculously unready to drink. He liked what I brought, something a good deal less exalted but eminently ready to drink.
At least he didn't need to feel remorse one way or the other, as he could well afford the Mouton
Magnoman, thank you for your words. You are so right. I drink to that
Devices are industrial, you never cancel 100%, but enough is enough, when you don't ear the problem any more. It works pretty well.
A pair of saturated Mosfet is not so non-linear that you believe, specially if you do not have to deal with temperature effects due to high currents.
It is just a little change of impedance vs frequency and levels, yet negligible if you follow-it by a Mosfet: Some miliohms VS Megohms.
Better worry about the linearity of ALL other active devices in your system, they are 100 x worse.
You cannot bypass the issue, using another solution, you just change the perspective of negative and positive effects.
One thing is for sure, if you get static relay to work OK, you will never be bored by contact problems, not the case of ANY mechanical solution.
We all did that, all the time. "Error cancellation".
Devices are industrial, you never cancel 100%, but enough is enough, when you don't ear the problem any more. It works pretty well.
A pair of saturated Mosfet is not so non-linear that you believe, specially if you do not have to deal with temperature effects due to high currents.
It is just a little change of impedance vs frequency and levels, yet negligible if you follow-it by a Mosfet: Some miliohms VS Megohms.
Better worry about the linearity of ALL other active devices in your system, they are 100 x worse.
You cannot bypass the issue, using another solution, you just change the perspective of negative and positive effects.
One thing is for sure, if you get static relay to work OK, you will never be bored by contact problems, not the case of ANY mechanical solution.
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bcarso
Yes, basically the wine you like is probably good.
I've just seen so many times where the "real" product with all the expensive finishing touches is directly compared to the original hand built, cheap components, to determine what went wrong (even with charge sensitive preamps).
Thanks
-Antonio
Yes, basically the wine you like is probably good.
I've just seen so many times where the "real" product with all the expensive finishing touches is directly compared to the original hand built, cheap components, to determine what went wrong (even with charge sensitive preamps).
Thanks
-Antonio
I've never seen AC coupled clocks before
4059s have a Schmidt trigger on the clock input and are expecting capacitor coupling for inputs other than matching logic. The 4066 doesn't.
... and I thought the name-dropping couldn't possibly go any higher after all dis Gran Cru Burgundy ..
I was just saying to the Queen the other day, "Liz, these commoners are getting far too uppity. Especially the ex rebel colonials."
Mouton Rothschild, 85% export.... and I thought the name-dropping couldn't possibly go any higher after all dis Gran Cru Burgundy ..
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