Hello DIYtoon - no indeed, that could be a brief and expensive experiment. Should only be applied to woofers, mids and fullrange drivers.
>the nevr ending search to find something better
- actually I think it is possible to end the search. I'm curious to hear - but no particular desire to buy and build with - drivers other than the ones I have.
I think the end to the never ending search comes with building something you discover fulfills most of what you were after. The MLTLs do it for me, given that it is an elegant enclosure, covers the frequency range I want (35Hz to 20kHz), at the volume levels I use (not huge), images brilliantly, sounds natural and is enjoyable to listen to. Jim's refinements are the icing on the cake - I prefer the simplicity of a single driver and no crossover, but that's purely a personal philosophical quirk.
>the nevr ending search to find something better
- actually I think it is possible to end the search. I'm curious to hear - but no particular desire to buy and build with - drivers other than the ones I have.
I think the end to the never ending search comes with building something you discover fulfills most of what you were after. The MLTLs do it for me, given that it is an elegant enclosure, covers the frequency range I want (35Hz to 20kHz), at the volume levels I use (not huge), images brilliantly, sounds natural and is enjoyable to listen to. Jim's refinements are the icing on the cake - I prefer the simplicity of a single driver and no crossover, but that's purely a personal philosophical quirk.
Colin said:
Hi Colin,
it keeps you busy...
but usually the search ends where it began...
In my case back to the original VTL design by Ted Jordan (he really knows what he is doing)...no supertweeters, no subwoofers...
and with about 5000 hours mileage they sound so right...
next step will be placing them in an open baffle...
anyone has ever tried this?
VTL is a nice design, though I think the MLTL may beat it. (I've heard both but not side by side.)
I'm not sure the JX92 is suited to OB use full range. OB experts chime in here ... GM has said that the ideal way to use the driver would be OB down to 220Hz, with a bass driver to take over below. In fact, here's his post from the fullrange forum a year or so ago:
"The mass corner is ~221 Hz, so an OB big enough to support this makes it max flat and critically damped, and since it has way more Xmax than needed, no HP is required. This is as good as it gets with a 'boxed' point source driver. Then it's just a matter of finding the best in-room point/slope for the subs.
"FWIW, I suggest a 22.03" w x 13.625" h rigid baffle with the driver down 8.25" and over 10.5", making them mirror image. Toe'd in per TJ's recommendation and mounted up at ~ear height"
I'm not sure the JX92 is suited to OB use full range. OB experts chime in here ... GM has said that the ideal way to use the driver would be OB down to 220Hz, with a bass driver to take over below. In fact, here's his post from the fullrange forum a year or so ago:
"The mass corner is ~221 Hz, so an OB big enough to support this makes it max flat and critically damped, and since it has way more Xmax than needed, no HP is required. This is as good as it gets with a 'boxed' point source driver. Then it's just a matter of finding the best in-room point/slope for the subs.
"FWIW, I suggest a 22.03" w x 13.625" h rigid baffle with the driver down 8.25" and over 10.5", making them mirror image. Toe'd in per TJ's recommendation and mounted up at ~ear height"
I am trying this very thing within a week or so..Jordans will reside in the middle spot. the side wing baffle is just for trying differant small drivers. I will be trying Jordan @ 150HZ w/ the HP @line level & active below that. The 4" Calrad shown is excellent. I can only imagine what the Jordan will do..Soon I will know.. If all fails & have to try another driver, I will build Jim's monitor w/ the Jordans & I have a pair of G2's allready.
griffin mini-monitor
I've been searcging for ideas about small TL designs and Jim Griffiths mini-monitor kept cropping up. I've tried to find plans etc but no luck. I've taken the step of joining up to this website in the hope of finding out more about speaker design for a non-tech person like myself (I have built TL speakers in the past).
Any steer would help at this stage.
Thanks
I've been searcging for ideas about small TL designs and Jim Griffiths mini-monitor kept cropping up. I've tried to find plans etc but no luck. I've taken the step of joining up to this website in the hope of finding out more about speaker design for a non-tech person like myself (I have built TL speakers in the past).
Any steer would help at this stage.
Thanks
Hi Ghris Tween
You have taken a great step in joining this website.
What size speakers are you actually planning,a bookshelf or floorstanding.If floorstanding transmissionline with a touch from Jim Griffin,Here is a link to another good topic:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81634&highlight=
You have taken a great step in joining this website.
What size speakers are you actually planning,a bookshelf or floorstanding.If floorstanding transmissionline with a touch from Jim Griffin,Here is a link to another good topic:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81634&highlight=
My Jordan JX92S and Aurum Cantus G2si mini-monitor plans are located at:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/0cd36443-0972-477d-9e54-1267c790b359/JX92SG2siDesignPak
If you are interested in the MLTL version, please contact me.
Jim
http://www.esnips.com/doc/0cd36443-0972-477d-9e54-1267c790b359/JX92SG2siDesignPak
If you are interested in the MLTL version, please contact me.
Jim
Hi Chris
The original MLTL designs are on the Jordan site here. To modify into Jim's ribbon version, add the ribbon driver and crossover from the design given in his link. Note that for best results, as Jim says elsewhere here, the front baffle width of the MLTL has to be the same as his mini-monitor.
The original MLTL designs are on the Jordan site here. To modify into Jim's ribbon version, add the ribbon driver and crossover from the design given in his link. Note that for best results, as Jim says elsewhere here, the front baffle width of the MLTL has to be the same as his mini-monitor.
Here are my JX92s built in a 3 liter box :
They are built out of massive teck wood :
Here are the steps of the construction :
The box size is internally 20.4 x 13.4 x 12.3 cm (H x W x D), externally 24 x 17 x 15.9 cm.
The sound is nice, very detailed, not a lot of bass, but they need some break in and the box is rather small.
For the price, I am very satisfied with these speakers.
I shall now try them in a bigger box to see what I can get out of them.
Jumper
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They are built out of massive teck wood :
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Here are the steps of the construction :
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The box size is internally 20.4 x 13.4 x 12.3 cm (H x W x D), externally 24 x 17 x 15.9 cm.
The sound is nice, very detailed, not a lot of bass, but they need some break in and the box is rather small.
For the price, I am very satisfied with these speakers.
I shall now try them in a bigger box to see what I can get out of them.
Jumper
Question about Mini-monitor materials and dimensions
In the Notes of the design pack on page 7 you say:
1. All Dimensions are nominal and in inches.
2. Material is 1.000" thick MDF
Are the dimensions internal or external?
If they are external and I wanted to use .75" Baltic Birch should I simply reduce the height, width and depth by .5 inches. 11.5" x 7" x 11.25" HWD?
In the Notes of the design pack on page 7 you say:
1. All Dimensions are nominal and in inches.
2. Material is 1.000" thick MDF
Are the dimensions internal or external?
If they are external and I wanted to use .75" Baltic Birch should I simply reduce the height, width and depth by .5 inches. 11.5" x 7" x 11.25" HWD?
Dimensions of Mini-monitor Speaker
The dimensions on page 7 of the design package are external values and 1" thick material is assumed for this specific design. Hence, you would need to reduce the external values by 0.5" if you use 0.75" thick material to maintain the same internal volume as with the 1" thick material.
But, if you are building the mini-monitor with the ribbon design as described in the design package, I do suggest one alteration. Please keep the width value fixed at 7.5" wide and change the height and depth to achieve the same internal volume as the original design on page 7. The reason for this is that the baffle step compensation inherent within the crossover is for a 7.5" wide box so you'll achieve better results with the 7.5" value.
The dimensions on page 7 of the design package are external values and 1" thick material is assumed for this specific design. Hence, you would need to reduce the external values by 0.5" if you use 0.75" thick material to maintain the same internal volume as with the 1" thick material.
But, if you are building the mini-monitor with the ribbon design as described in the design package, I do suggest one alteration. Please keep the width value fixed at 7.5" wide and change the height and depth to achieve the same internal volume as the original design on page 7. The reason for this is that the baffle step compensation inherent within the crossover is for a 7.5" wide box so you'll achieve better results with the 7.5" value.
Thanks for the replies to my first ever posting on an internet site.
I am trying to achieve Home Office Nirvana. I want to use my ipod to juke box music whilst I use the pc (Apple) roping in my old MF A110 amp and an Arcam dock. All sat on a crowded desktop.
I have just knocked up some mini TLs in the last 48 hours to house my Caliber car speakers. I am reluctant to canibalise my unused TDL studio 2's. They sound 'interesting' but probably don't suit these full range speakers.
I am aiming to include an attachment here that goes into detail about my home brew cabinets etc.
Many of us have old bits of hifi and low level monitor style listening when on the pc is quite useful.
The Jim Griffin mini monitors I asked about, I now realise, are 2 way.
I'm thinking just how small can TL cabinets be for Jordan full range speakers?
I've seen the Australian ones that are very flat but quite tall.
Could my 410 x 300 x 224mm TL cabinets be used with the Jordans?
I just don't know how to start with the mathematics.
I am trying to achieve Home Office Nirvana. I want to use my ipod to juke box music whilst I use the pc (Apple) roping in my old MF A110 amp and an Arcam dock. All sat on a crowded desktop.
I have just knocked up some mini TLs in the last 48 hours to house my Caliber car speakers. I am reluctant to canibalise my unused TDL studio 2's. They sound 'interesting' but probably don't suit these full range speakers.
I am aiming to include an attachment here that goes into detail about my home brew cabinets etc.
Many of us have old bits of hifi and low level monitor style listening when on the pc is quite useful.
The Jim Griffin mini monitors I asked about, I now realise, are 2 way.
I'm thinking just how small can TL cabinets be for Jordan full range speakers?
I've seen the Australian ones that are very flat but quite tall.
Could my 410 x 300 x 224mm TL cabinets be used with the Jordans?
I just don't know how to start with the mathematics.
Hi Chris
For a start, I wouldn't use your TDLs as enclosures for the Jordan. You'd be better off selling the TDLs. The enclosure would have been tuned specifically for the TDL drivers and although the Jordans might work to some extent, they wouldn't be correctly loaded or give their best.
The Australian TL is the same as the VTL shown on the Jordan site on the JX92 systems page. You could, in theory, fold it differently to make a shorter, deeper box but it would be quite complicated. The shorter MLTL shown on the Jordan DIY page is more flexible; you have to keep the same height but you could alter the width/depth, as long as the overall crossectional area stays the same.
Alternatively, for a small monitor Jim's is a very good bet. You can use it one way - simply omit the tweeter and crossover. The crossover includes some compensation for the driver but you can find similar values on the Jordan site on the JX92 systems page. (Use the 8 litre frequency compensation.) If used against walls, you may find you don't need the compensation. Jordan's own 8 litre reflex will probably sound similar to the single-way Griffin reflex.
Hope this helps.
For a start, I wouldn't use your TDLs as enclosures for the Jordan. You'd be better off selling the TDLs. The enclosure would have been tuned specifically for the TDL drivers and although the Jordans might work to some extent, they wouldn't be correctly loaded or give their best.
The Australian TL is the same as the VTL shown on the Jordan site on the JX92 systems page. You could, in theory, fold it differently to make a shorter, deeper box but it would be quite complicated. The shorter MLTL shown on the Jordan DIY page is more flexible; you have to keep the same height but you could alter the width/depth, as long as the overall crossectional area stays the same.
Alternatively, for a small monitor Jim's is a very good bet. You can use it one way - simply omit the tweeter and crossover. The crossover includes some compensation for the driver but you can find similar values on the Jordan site on the JX92 systems page. (Use the 8 litre frequency compensation.) If used against walls, you may find you don't need the compensation. Jordan's own 8 litre reflex will probably sound similar to the single-way Griffin reflex.
Hope this helps.
Home Office Nirvana
Hi Colin
Thanks for your helpful suggestions. As a new member I am not able to email you.
I wasn't thinking of using my TDL cabinets but the way I wrote my last submission wasn't very clear.
In an office, at the desktop, one is really interested in a monitor type situation with speakers on the desk, possibly raised up to ear level. A design that can go near the wall or the corner could be useful.
It would be cruel to use the drivers in my TDLs as they are still a good pair of speakers. My new home brew TL cabinets are the ones that I am a bit disappointed with. What did I expect with some car speakers! Actually, they sound revealing and detailed and pleasant at low volumes, but with gaps in the range. Not quite hi fi, but useful for listening at any hour. And all from an ipod! I am rather against using a sub since this can be a nuisance to others. My TDLs were good at producing low frequencies that mostly stayed in the room - just too big and clumsy.
As someone who knows nothing of the math involved in speaker design, I am trying to do something that probably isn't feasible. I shall look into your suggestions. The corner placement would suit, and I really don't want to get involved in crossovers etc.
Chris
Hi Colin
Thanks for your helpful suggestions. As a new member I am not able to email you.
I wasn't thinking of using my TDL cabinets but the way I wrote my last submission wasn't very clear.
In an office, at the desktop, one is really interested in a monitor type situation with speakers on the desk, possibly raised up to ear level. A design that can go near the wall or the corner could be useful.
It would be cruel to use the drivers in my TDLs as they are still a good pair of speakers. My new home brew TL cabinets are the ones that I am a bit disappointed with. What did I expect with some car speakers! Actually, they sound revealing and detailed and pleasant at low volumes, but with gaps in the range. Not quite hi fi, but useful for listening at any hour. And all from an ipod! I am rather against using a sub since this can be a nuisance to others. My TDLs were good at producing low frequencies that mostly stayed in the room - just too big and clumsy.
As someone who knows nothing of the math involved in speaker design, I am trying to do something that probably isn't feasible. I shall look into your suggestions. The corner placement would suit, and I really don't want to get involved in crossovers etc.
Chris
Question bfor Jim or builders of his mini monitor
Hello Jim,
I have been reading about your JX-92 & Arum Cantus ribbon design.
I have been reading about both the mini monitor (for which I have downloaded the design pack) and the MLTL.
Now that I have the drivers in hand, I am about to build one of them, still not sure which, maybe the mini first and then the MLTL.
On the Mini monitor design, a question or two for clarification. I note the port dimension on the back is 1.5" in diamater.
Is there no port tube that extends into the box? If there is, what is it's length? Or are you using the 1" thickness of the material to make the port depth?
I see the plans for the crossovers physical layout. Where is the best place to mount that board in the box?
Lastly, is there any stuffing in this design?
On the MLTL, I note after studying the diyAudio forums, that you have stated to those interested in building your version of the MLTL with ribbon to contact you for plans.
If you don't mind, I too would like to have a set if they are available.
I cant contact you through diyAudio as I am too new a member!
Anyway Jim, thankyou and I wish there was some way to repay the favor.
Best Regards
Curt
Hello Jim,
I have been reading about your JX-92 & Arum Cantus ribbon design.
I have been reading about both the mini monitor (for which I have downloaded the design pack) and the MLTL.
Now that I have the drivers in hand, I am about to build one of them, still not sure which, maybe the mini first and then the MLTL.
On the Mini monitor design, a question or two for clarification. I note the port dimension on the back is 1.5" in diamater.
Is there no port tube that extends into the box? If there is, what is it's length? Or are you using the 1" thickness of the material to make the port depth?
I see the plans for the crossovers physical layout. Where is the best place to mount that board in the box?
Lastly, is there any stuffing in this design?
On the MLTL, I note after studying the diyAudio forums, that you have stated to those interested in building your version of the MLTL with ribbon to contact you for plans.
If you don't mind, I too would like to have a set if they are available.
I cant contact you through diyAudio as I am too new a member!
Anyway Jim, thankyou and I wish there was some way to repay the favor.
Best Regards
Curt
I just built a set of the mini-monitors using the .25 cu. ft. cabinet from Parts Express. The finish on the cabinets is very nice and the cost is less than the materials and my time is worth.
They had their public debut at a local audio meet last week. Everyone was very very complimentary. Several people ranked them among the best monitors they have ever heard.
I just drilled the back of the cabinet for the port. Come to think of it, the cabinet is only 3/4 inch thick, I probably need to add a few straws to the port to make it 1 inch. Even so, they have very good bass for their size.
I lined the back and sides with 1 inch foam from parts express. No other stuffing. I think they sound good and as I said, so did the rest of the listeners.
My crossovers are currently external so I can continue to tweak them. The layout I used is different from Jim's. I couldn't figure out how to connect all the wires cleanly looking at his layout. The nice thing is that since they are on two smaller boards, there is lots of options when I choose to put them inside the cabinet.
They had their public debut at a local audio meet last week. Everyone was very very complimentary. Several people ranked them among the best monitors they have ever heard.
I just drilled the back of the cabinet for the port. Come to think of it, the cabinet is only 3/4 inch thick, I probably need to add a few straws to the port to make it 1 inch. Even so, they have very good bass for their size.
I lined the back and sides with 1 inch foam from parts express. No other stuffing. I think they sound good and as I said, so did the rest of the listeners.
My crossovers are currently external so I can continue to tweak them. The layout I used is different from Jim's. I couldn't figure out how to connect all the wires cleanly looking at his layout. The nice thing is that since they are on two smaller boards, there is lots of options when I choose to put them inside the cabinet.
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