My choice will be EI maybe double c-core, its true do not have to listen to the amps
. But you gave me some good information which will benefitMy choice will be EI maybe double c-core, its true do not have to listen to the amps
Hello,
When i bought mine in Paris the double C core were out of stock. Normally they had one for the 20 and one for the 30 watt Hiraga.
Finally i decided to use a 500 VA EI core that they were using for another amp after waiting months for the C cores NOT arriving.
Why not use a so called Rcore . The internet is full of them. Try to have one made with a static screen.
In the past i did get mine at Selectronic in france but i think they are out of business.
You can find my post about the lundahl chokes for sure.
Greetings, Eduard
P.s the Lundahl chokers can be found at Jacmusic or Thomas Mayer both in Germany
It's very difficult to find a RCORE transformer here in the uk, especially one where i need a minimum of 400va. Some goes for a Double C core. It seems that i have to get these specially made! Its very easy to find toridol and EI transformers.
I looked into Lundahl chokes, again difficult to get the power ratings i need, seem these would be ok for something like the Higara 8W.
Looking into different companies offering handmade transformers built to specification.
I looked into Lundahl chokes, again difficult to get the power ratings i need, seem these would be ok for something like the Higara 8W.
Looking into different companies offering handmade transformers built to specification.
Transformer, Capacitors!
Transformer_James transformer-custom toroidal transformer|R core transformer|O core transformer|C core transformer|EI transformer
Looks promising a company who will make all types of transformer!
Going to get a quote for R-Core and Double C (ED Type) as i do have budget.
Now i have a question about capacitors which is confusing me at the moment.
I want to provide each amplifier board with around 0.5F of capacitance.
I see many Electrolytic capacitors for sale for example:
B41456B7220M | EPCOS Aluminium Electrolytic Capacitor 0.22F 40 V dc 76.9mm Screw Terminal B41456 Series Lifetime 12000h | EPCOS
SPECS:
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/400/TDK_01302017_B41456_B41458-1089857.pdf
for example this is 40V @ 0.22F and costs £134 for two giving me 0.44F
Or i can buy these:
33000uF 35V ALC10C KEMET HQ Class A Audio Mosfet Capacitor 18pcs | eBay
SPECS:
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/212/KEM_A4020_ALC10-535355.pdf
Which are smaller being 35v @ 56000uf and i get 18 units for £35!!
Meaning i get 0.5F with 9 of these in parallel.
So my question is which is better? To have bigger capacitors like the EPCOS but less of them or to have multiple units like the KEMELs that make the capacitance i need?
Decisions decisions.
Transformer_James transformer-custom toroidal transformer|R core transformer|O core transformer|C core transformer|EI transformer
Looks promising a company who will make all types of transformer!
Going to get a quote for R-Core and Double C (ED Type) as i do have budget.
Now i have a question about capacitors which is confusing me at the moment.
I want to provide each amplifier board with around 0.5F of capacitance.
I see many Electrolytic capacitors for sale for example:
B41456B7220M | EPCOS Aluminium Electrolytic Capacitor 0.22F 40 V dc 76.9mm Screw Terminal B41456 Series Lifetime 12000h | EPCOS
SPECS:
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/400/TDK_01302017_B41456_B41458-1089857.pdf
for example this is 40V @ 0.22F and costs £134 for two giving me 0.44F
Or i can buy these:
33000uF 35V ALC10C KEMET HQ Class A Audio Mosfet Capacitor 18pcs | eBay
SPECS:
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/212/KEM_A4020_ALC10-535355.pdf
Which are smaller being 35v @ 56000uf and i get 18 units for £35!!
Meaning i get 0.5F with 9 of these in parallel.
So my question is which is better? To have bigger capacitors like the EPCOS but less of them or to have multiple units like the KEMELs that make the capacitance i need?
Decisions decisions.
Last edited:
Hi Eduard
https://www.audiohobby.eu/en/lundah...36-lundahl-filament-current-choke-ll2733.html
Are you saying these would be suitable for my Hiraga Build? I haven't found anyone as yet who have used these. So if i could and wanted to use these i would need two?
Thanks
https://www.audiohobby.eu/en/lundah...36-lundahl-filament-current-choke-ll2733.html
Are you saying these would be suitable for my Hiraga Build? I haven't found anyone as yet who have used these. So if i could and wanted to use these i would need two?
Thanks
With the low input impedance of a SS power amp circuit I suppose you could get away with low value chokes. It's not like a tube amp. I haven't done the math.
As for caps, the original used screw terminal caps for a reason. That reason being the copper bars used to connect them together. The copper bars offer a very low DCR, which helps a number of things, not the least the poor PSRR of the amp.
As for caps, the original used screw terminal caps for a reason. That reason being the copper bars used to connect them together. The copper bars offer a very low DCR, which helps a number of things, not the least the poor PSRR of the amp.
You really seem to have gone Off on a tangent.
Following the Audio Weenie belief that Boutique (pricier at least) parts make for a better sounding unit.
Good luck with that
Circuit design is The determiner.
In that vein; why this older circuit rather than the more recent and proven excellent Pass designs ? Mere curiosity is all.
A simple and V well made Torriody Tx is More transformer than you will need Or hear.. 300VA is what Firstwatts come with 400va is what DIY'rs use .
Twin Tx is simply affectation imo.
More Uf can't hurt. Help though remains as an Open question.
But hey Your $.. your adventure.
G'luck.
Following the Audio Weenie belief that Boutique (pricier at least) parts make for a better sounding unit.
Good luck with that
Circuit design is The determiner.
In that vein; why this older circuit rather than the more recent and proven excellent Pass designs ? Mere curiosity is all.
A simple and V well made Torriody Tx is More transformer than you will need Or hear.. 300VA is what Firstwatts come with 400va is what DIY'rs use .
Twin Tx is simply affectation imo.
More Uf can't hurt. Help though remains as an Open question.
But hey Your $.. your adventure.
G'luck.
You really seem to have gone Off on a tangent.
Best Way i find for myself to learn, like thinking out fo the box
Following the Audio Weenie belief that Boutique (pricier at least) parts make for a better sounding unit.
Actually read a number of threads on different websites including french,
russian etc I do believe a really good transformer can make all the difference, just getting ideas on whats best approach
Good luck with that
Circuit design is The determiner.
In that vein; why this older circuit rather than the more recent and proven excellent Pass designs ? Mere curiosity is all.
Well when i started this hobby it was either a PASS or HIRAGA, i chose the latter because of curiosity and to get me learning. Plus its not a PASS design which is so popular. That will be next on my list
A simple and V well made Torriody Tx is More transformer than you will need Or hear.. 300VA is what Firstwatts come with 400va is what DIY'rs use .
Twin Tx is simply affectation imo.
More is better! I am a diy man so there you go
More Uf can't hurt. Help though remains as an Open question.
But hey Your $.. your adventure.
G'luck.
Thank you!
Hello,
Sure this ll2733 is the one to use.
The people who did put the hiraga on the market started using chokes later on. They did agree that a choke would probably be a big improvement.
I have all the French publications on the hiraga and did use some ideas published in later designs.they wrote a lot about power supplies.
I would choose an r core. There are differences between caps. That is sure.
You will find publications about too on the Internet. The French magazine like audiophile can be found online.
Greetings, eduard
Sure this ll2733 is the one to use.
The people who did put the hiraga on the market started using chokes later on. They did agree that a choke would probably be a big improvement.
I have all the French publications on the hiraga and did use some ideas published in later designs.they wrote a lot about power supplies.
I would choose an r core. There are differences between caps. That is sure.
You will find publications about too on the Internet. The French magazine like audiophile can be found online.
Greetings, eduard
woohoo.. looks like Hiraga 30W builders are having a party here..
what i really like is each one of us have followed different approach towards building this monster!
mine is a monoblock build..
what i really like is each one of us have followed different approach towards building this monster!
mine is a monoblock build..
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hello,
20 watt did use 6*68000µF caps
30 watt ( called Le Classe A) did use 2*68000 and 4*330000µF. That was the one i build with a 500VA EI core. Dcr of the chokes i used was about 1 ohm. No soft start used but the light would dim at switch on !! With a 500 VA toriodal you will need a soft start. 500 VA R core usually can do without a soft start.
Double c cores have tendency to buzz. The once sold in Paris were vacuum impregnated. The r cores from Selectronic ( now closed) always did give good results. The lundahl chokes can be mounted very close to the R core no problem.
Greetings, Eduard
The two people selling Lundahl in Germany offer good prices and they might have them in stock.
20 watt did use 6*68000µF caps
30 watt ( called Le Classe A) did use 2*68000 and 4*330000µF. That was the one i build with a 500VA EI core. Dcr of the chokes i used was about 1 ohm. No soft start used but the light would dim at switch on !! With a 500 VA toriodal you will need a soft start. 500 VA R core usually can do without a soft start.
Double c cores have tendency to buzz. The once sold in Paris were vacuum impregnated. The r cores from Selectronic ( now closed) always did give good results. The lundahl chokes can be mounted very close to the R core no problem.
Greetings, Eduard
The two people selling Lundahl in Germany offer good prices and they might have them in stock.
Sorry Bare, PSU is NOT off topic for this amp. What is an power amp anyway, but a fancy regulated power supply?
Yes, you can overbuild anything, but this power supply isn't overbuilt just for the sake of feeling good or bragging about it. The audio circuit itself is simple and does not have a high PSRR. That's a trade off for its stability and transparency. You will hear changes in the power supply on this amp. My first build used a big toroid transformer because it was cheap. Yes, it was good, but not as good as an EI or R core unit. The differences where subtle, but important.
I used my build mostly for powering doubled stacked Quad 57 ESL panels until a factory built unit replaced it. The double 57s are not an easy load to drive, but the Hiraga never complained. Other amps, both tube and solid state, would go into oscillation or have other problems. The Hiraga, never. I didn't think it would be enough amp for the double stacked panels, but it was always up to the task. Some of that is PSU, some of it other things.
Careful work on the power supply of this amp really pays off. If your room and speakers are up to the task, you will be well rewarded.
Yes, you can overbuild anything, but this power supply isn't overbuilt just for the sake of feeling good or bragging about it. The audio circuit itself is simple and does not have a high PSRR. That's a trade off for its stability and transparency. You will hear changes in the power supply on this amp. My first build used a big toroid transformer because it was cheap. Yes, it was good, but not as good as an EI or R core unit. The differences where subtle, but important.
I used my build mostly for powering doubled stacked Quad 57 ESL panels until a factory built unit replaced it. The double 57s are not an easy load to drive, but the Hiraga never complained. Other amps, both tube and solid state, would go into oscillation or have other problems. The Hiraga, never. I didn't think it would be enough amp for the double stacked panels, but it was always up to the task. Some of that is PSU, some of it other things.
Careful work on the power supply of this amp really pays off. If your room and speakers are up to the task, you will be well rewarded.
Hello,
Pano is absoletely right. The biggest return on investment for this amp would be the power supply.
The 330000µF were very expensive back in those days. I dont know if modern caps could be better. They were 25 volts and used close to that limit!!!. I would go for 35/40 volts models.
In my dddac i am using mundorf. The French used several brands in their Hiraga usually Sic safco or Cef. They prefered the ones with low esr and big current possibilties.
Greetings, Eduard
P.s in other publications they did talk about differences between crc and clc power supplies. The choke will offer way better filtering. More µF is used not for better filtering but for current capability. When they talk ( last few years) they say nothing compares to lots of µF . Regulation can work but it doesnt give a sound that shows power!!
Pano is absoletely right. The biggest return on investment for this amp would be the power supply.
The 330000µF were very expensive back in those days. I dont know if modern caps could be better. They were 25 volts and used close to that limit!!!. I would go for 35/40 volts models.
In my dddac i am using mundorf. The French used several brands in their Hiraga usually Sic safco or Cef. They prefered the ones with low esr and big current possibilties.
Greetings, Eduard
P.s in other publications they did talk about differences between crc and clc power supplies. The choke will offer way better filtering. More µF is used not for better filtering but for current capability. When they talk ( last few years) they say nothing compares to lots of µF . Regulation can work but it doesnt give a sound that shows power!!
Electrolityc Capacitor 560000uF (0,56 Farad) 35V 85°C (Screw) KENDEIL | eBay
Guys what do you think? This is really good value.
0.56F 35v only £63!
Think i will buy 4 of them.
Guys what do you think? This is really good value.
0.56F 35v only £63!
Think i will buy 4 of them.
Looking at Kendeil PDF(SCREW TERMINALS) i can't find this product
Same here, not on the website and not the same product markings. You think they are fakes?
Well here in the USA Digikey has some nice 68000uF screw terminal caps made by TDK. They are low inductance and fairly low ESR.
https://en.tdk.eu/inf/20/30/db/aec/B41456_B41458.pdf
About $30 each for the 40V version.
They also carry the 220000uF for $81 each. Still very low ESR about 5mOhm. You'd need only 1 per side after filtering.
https://en.tdk.eu/inf/20/30/db/aec/B41456_B41458.pdf
About $30 each for the 40V version.
They also carry the 220000uF for $81 each. Still very low ESR about 5mOhm. You'd need only 1 per side after filtering.