"Traditional" has been defined by the electronics industry, not by amateur speaker builder folklore.
Lars consults others for some of his speaker and acoustic related issues. Working interfield has the potential for language inconsistencies and misunderstandings as we've seen.
It is often used for response shaping.
While your point about the source impedance of the amplifier does come in to the equation, it's superfluous to the greater point and I'd question why you'd even bring it up.
I don't care about silly semantics of amateur speaker builders.
His qualifications aside, my point being that Lars is just one of many who use the "alternate" definition.
It's not superfluous. It's an important factor in whether one or the other filter is utilized in a particular application.
Also, it shouldn't be my job to correct misstatements from forum administrators. Unfortunately, I seem to be doing some of that lately.
If you don't understand the nuance of a topic, I suggest to just watch the thread vice posting.
Dave.
His qualifications aside, my point being that Lars is just one of many who use the "alternate" definition.
It's not superfluous. It's an important factor in whether one or the other filter is utilized in a particular application.
Also, it shouldn't be my job to correct misstatements from forum administrators. Unfortunately, I seem to be doing some of that lately.
If you don't understand the nuance of a topic, I suggest to just watch the thread vice posting.
Dave.
There have been no misstatements by forum administrators Davey. Give it a rest. You are, and have been wrong, from the start. I am being impolite for a reason at this point. Patience seemed to have had little affect.
I wish you a good evening. Can’t say there is more to add at this point.
I wish you a good evening. Can’t say there is more to add at this point.
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@Cal Weldon Your assessment is incorrect. But that's cool.....believe what you want to believe.
You have a good one yourself.
Dave.
You have a good one yourself.
Dave.
The last sentence in Post #4 is incorrect....and why I suggested to Dave R to rethink his statement.
Why you thought it was correct I don't know. I suggest to read up on some basic electronics if you don't understand it.
My comments regarding that statement are correct, period!
Dave.
Why you thought it was correct I don't know. I suggest to read up on some basic electronics if you don't understand it.
My comments regarding that statement are correct, period!
Dave.
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ok i'm confused about the controversy here, there seems to be some confusion about filter circuit types right along with where there placed in the circuit with respect to the driver.
i'm no filter guru but i do feel that Davey is simply looking at filter placement with respect to the driver which is where his assertion that things are miss labeled stems from,when in fact the labels are meant to describe the configuration of the components of the filter itself i.e. parallel to each other or series with each other.
either type of filter could be placed series or parallel to the driver...then it becomes the more confusing part...is it forming a band pass, band reject and what is the Q...
i'm no filter guru but i do feel that Davey is simply looking at filter placement with respect to the driver which is where his assertion that things are miss labeled stems from,when in fact the labels are meant to describe the configuration of the components of the filter itself i.e. parallel to each other or series with each other.
either type of filter could be placed series or parallel to the driver...then it becomes the more confusing part...is it forming a band pass, band reject and what is the Q...
One day the clouds will open and the light will shine upon you.
Couldn't have said it better. Wait, that's just what I did say back in post 9.
Yes turk, you are correct. For Dave, it's ambiguity, nothing more.
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We are only Mods and Admins when taking action. We are regular members at all other times.
We are encouraged to discuss and even disagree about issues with other members.
If you call that gaslighting then it means you are offended more easily than I expected.
I will take leave of this thread so as not to cause you any further discomfort.
All the best.
We are encouraged to discuss and even disagree about issues with other members.
If you call that gaslighting then it means you are offended more easily than I expected.
I will take leave of this thread so as not to cause you any further discomfort.
All the best.
No, that's not what my contention was. Please re-read the thread if you want to pick up on the issue I noted.
The series-in-parallel or parallel-in-series thing was a different discussion.
It matters not to the OP's original query of whether expensive components are worth it. That's a subjective thing and we wouldn't come to a consensus on that.
Dave.
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A picture tells more than thousand words.
Strictly only two of the four filter combinations in below attached picture are notch filters, aka band-stop filter, band-pass filter on the other hand is not a notch filter.
But I will admit while talking loudspeaker filters I have some times been using "notch filter" expression casually for any of the four cases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band-stop_filter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band-pass_filter
source: https://electricalacademia.com/electronics/band-pass-notch-filter-circuit-theory/
Strictly only two of the four filter combinations in below attached picture are notch filters, aka band-stop filter, band-pass filter on the other hand is not a notch filter.
But I will admit while talking loudspeaker filters I have some times been using "notch filter" expression casually for any of the four cases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band-stop_filter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band-pass_filter
source: https://electricalacademia.com/electronics/band-pass-notch-filter-circuit-theory/
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Yeah, the upper pictorial is an interesting one because it highlights part of the understanding issue here.
The two shunt filters on the right have limited or no effect on RL.....if the source impedance is low. (The source impedance being low is the typical case with most audio power amplifiers.)
"R" in the bottom pictorial can be representative of the output resistance of a power amplifier. That value is usually very low.
I can understand why some get confused with this.
Dave.
The two shunt filters on the right have limited or no effect on RL.....if the source impedance is low. (The source impedance being low is the typical case with most audio power amplifiers.)
"R" in the bottom pictorial can be representative of the output resistance of a power amplifier. That value is usually very low.
I can understand why some get confused with this.
Dave.
I keep telling my kids, the hardest part of math is the terminology.
5+3=8, 3+5=8. Commutative property, aka common sense. Kids can do that math before they can even pronounce the label correctly.
To the point, call one circuit alignment an apple, call one a banana. Argue labels all day, it doesn’t change how it functions - it doesn’t change the math/science.
Just my opinion on components: Those in series with the signal path of the driver have a greater impact than those shunted. Money allocated accordingly.
5+3=8, 3+5=8. Commutative property, aka common sense. Kids can do that math before they can even pronounce the label correctly.
To the point, call one circuit alignment an apple, call one a banana. Argue labels all day, it doesn’t change how it functions - it doesn’t change the math/science.
Just my opinion on components: Those in series with the signal path of the driver have a greater impact than those shunted. Money allocated accordingly.
I consider it wasted money and effort investing big in such a menial task.
I would aim at lower DRC for obvious reasons: it's in series with speaker and that is a thing, but anything beyond: Litz wire (WTF?), Silver or cryogenically treated or being dipped in beeswax or wound by Elves deep in the Moria mines or .. or .. or .... stinks of snake oil.
Literally: "oil inductor" 🙄
WHAT audible parameter it might improve is way beyond me.
Of course it is your time and money, if you feel better spending 10X the needed money, go with it.
The effect will be that of a capacitor that is the sum of the capacitance values (capacitors in parallel add).
My experience has been the electrical values determine the effects, not the brand names or costs ... the main effect of an inductor with larger gauge wire is less resistance, which may be desirable (as in the inductor in series with a woofer), or it may need a resistor to increase in value to maintain the same Q (as in this circuit).
I might expect to trim the value when adjusting the frequency. When you deal with a narrow peak that becomes more critical. To adjust the Q you can trim the resistance. Otherwise you shouldn't need to bypass.
I'm likely to take that one with a grain of salt. Something about drawing a complete circuit like this with no resistance..
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