Indeed, and for this reason I would like to return to coax woofers once more.
Following the posts on the German manufacturer and the Bullfrog earlier, I want to highlight the so called "Monitor" Series.
These consist of a coax top + bass cab, both box shaped.
There are 3 models: 8.12, 10.15, 12.18 and guess what... the numbers indicate the size of the coax and bass driver respectively.
This concept includes some of the Bullfrogs features, with a few perks and at least one inevitable drawback: it's bigger.
However, the Bullfrog including the stand is quite bulky as well.
I'll focus on the 8.12.
Following the posts on the German manufacturer and the Bullfrog earlier, I want to highlight the so called "Monitor" Series.
These consist of a coax top + bass cab, both box shaped.
There are 3 models: 8.12, 10.15, 12.18 and guess what... the numbers indicate the size of the coax and bass driver respectively.
This concept includes some of the Bullfrogs features, with a few perks and at least one inevitable drawback: it's bigger.
However, the Bullfrog including the stand is quite bulky as well.
I'll focus on the 8.12.
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Hows that going to work out? Who makes a coaxial where the horn is capable of being cross over low enough to even be considered...
I like those speakers above, I seen them while scrolling pinterest for enclosure ideas. This type of speaker is what I first started to design at the beginning of this endeavor. Somewhere down the line I convinced myself that if horns were so good that I need to cover as much frequency as possible with it....now I'm here. Letting go of single point reproduction goals, to gain one less xover and a proper horn covering much for range.
That said, single point source must be powerful enough that the aforementioned consequences are commonly overlooked.... With gedlees comment "creates a mess in the throat" is this just with coaxials that use a waveguide for the top? Dual concentric may have a different issues if so.
Either way the coaxials from Beyma are the best that I found for what I wanted to do with them
5CX200ND/N in particular, crossed at 130hz-200hz to the woofer of choice....
Since you've chosen the 8" I guess this mighty be a candidate LOUDSPEAKER 8"CX300Fe 8 OH
Not sure why one would want a woofer size where the xover freq exceeds a ka of 2....
I like those speakers above, I seen them while scrolling pinterest for enclosure ideas. This type of speaker is what I first started to design at the beginning of this endeavor. Somewhere down the line I convinced myself that if horns were so good that I need to cover as much frequency as possible with it....now I'm here. Letting go of single point reproduction goals, to gain one less xover and a proper horn covering much for range.
That said, single point source must be powerful enough that the aforementioned consequences are commonly overlooked.... With gedlees comment "creates a mess in the throat" is this just with coaxials that use a waveguide for the top? Dual concentric may have a different issues if so.
Either way the coaxials from Beyma are the best that I found for what I wanted to do with them
5CX200ND/N in particular, crossed at 130hz-200hz to the woofer of choice....
Since you've chosen the 8" I guess this mighty be a candidate LOUDSPEAKER 8"CX300Fe 8 OH
Not sure why one would want a woofer size where the xover freq exceeds a ka of 2....
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The dynamikks is what gave me inspiration to build my beyma towers with the 12” beyma coaxial driver. I like their ‘modular’ look.
Anyway, first component of my 2-way project has arrived. Paudio ph-4220 horn (a slightly taller version of the jbl 2370). The horn is very plastically and will certainly need some deadening. Not as big as I was anticipating either. Oh well!
Anyway, first component of my 2-way project has arrived. Paudio ph-4220 horn (a slightly taller version of the jbl 2370). The horn is very plastically and will certainly need some deadening. Not as big as I was anticipating either. Oh well!
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It has come truncated. The shallow vertical angles require protruding lips to provide control to a frequency equal to that of the sides. It would be taller than it is wide unless you want to cross at a high frequency.
Or.. choose exactly where it blooms, and cross to round.
Well, reflecting in the sense it's damping them.
Hmm, I didn't notice that the subject was co-ax related whereas I'm talking about horn driver HF distortion due to the phase plug/horn throat interface built into the driver, which can be construed as its low pass filter chamber to further 'muddy the waters' and where the SS 'wool' goes, a point of seeming continuing confusion/miscommunication in most horn related threads.
Anyway, in the two Altec cases, the WLs are > ~ 9500 Hz.
On a similar note WRT acoustic centers, while Altec published using the ~ center of the VC for ease of visual alignment, the acoustic center 'sets' on the face of the phase plug, this discrepancy being within the pioneer's 'close enough' 1/4 WL of the XO point rule.
Fine for traditional designs, but looking at some of these fancy co-ax, not so sure it applies, but easy enough to measure nowadays.
GM
Can/'t comment on this one, but here's Altec's instructions that will have the same basics: http://greatplainsaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/SmDrvrDiaRpl.pdf
GM
FWIW, this 12" variant has been accused of sounding 'congested', so seems reasonable an 8" would tend to have the same problem, though maybe not as pronounced since it's smaller, hence shifted higher in frequency.
Why not? It's basically 'setting' on the baffle, same as the horn's apparently tractrix flare.
GM
compression driver diaphragm centering - Google Search
Hope this won't be hard to do. Is there something that I need to know about installing the diaphragm?
Uncentered phragm definetely sound bad, I have some on the shelf. It doesn't bother me while I'm using another tweeters)).
You should try a very large membrane in the direct field (30in at 0,5 meter)
There is nothing about centering, same about 18s' manual.
I wasn't expecting jbl relatively modern phragms aren't self-centering.
Frequency response on the Beyma's look much more promising and the research I did on them proved to show that Beyma is one of those companies whos posted freq chart will actually realize, in the real world.
Still, personally I would wouldn't go bigger than a 6"....GM's comment about setting on the baffle is above my head, unless of course hes talking about the polar...which that might make sense. He tends to say things that are over my head.....=)
Still, personally I would wouldn't go bigger than a 6"....GM's comment about setting on the baffle is above my head, unless of course hes talking about the polar...which that might make sense. He tends to say things that are over my head.....=)
The Monitor range of loudspeaker systems are effectively 3-ways, or 2-way + bass, depending on how you look at it.
I think it's a nice concept, not without flaws, but which loudspeaker system is?
The white 8.12 above is the Mk1 version, which is interesting because of the low cost drivers.
In recent years raw driver prices have increased considerably, but a few years ago the drivers for a pair of 8.12 Mk1s cost around €400.
Which drivers?
Coax: SICA 8 C 2 CP
Compression Driver: SICA CD 60.38/N92
Woofer: Eminence Kappa Pro 12A
I think it's a nice concept, not without flaws, but which loudspeaker system is?
The white 8.12 above is the Mk1 version, which is interesting because of the low cost drivers.
In recent years raw driver prices have increased considerably, but a few years ago the drivers for a pair of 8.12 Mk1s cost around €400.
Which drivers?
Coax: SICA 8 C 2 CP
Compression Driver: SICA CD 60.38/N92
Woofer: Eminence Kappa Pro 12A
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If I would build a 8.12 clone, I would probably go active.
Moreover, I would exchange the Eminence for a SICA bass driver as well.
2 options come to mind:
- SICA 12 S 3 CP (Version 2018)
- SICA 12 SR 3 PL.
Both would work in a smaller cab, but in a large volume BR cabinet the latter driver would reach the 20s.
2 quick sims:
- SICA 12 S 3 CP v2018, VB = 165.0 L, FB = 38.0 Hz, the 0 dB corresponds to 95.2 dB
- SICA 12 SR 3 PL, VB = 150.0 L, FB = 28.0 Hz, the 0 dB corresponds to 94.4 dB.
Moreover, I would exchange the Eminence for a SICA bass driver as well.
2 options come to mind:
- SICA 12 S 3 CP (Version 2018)
- SICA 12 SR 3 PL.
Both would work in a smaller cab, but in a large volume BR cabinet the latter driver would reach the 20s.
2 quick sims:
- SICA 12 S 3 CP v2018, VB = 165.0 L, FB = 38.0 Hz, the 0 dB corresponds to 95.2 dB
- SICA 12 SR 3 PL, VB = 150.0 L, FB = 28.0 Hz, the 0 dB corresponds to 94.4 dB.
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