Bass guitars can make other noise the don't involve plucking if you are familiar....I don't play bass so I dont know the correct term for when a bassist bumps the strings to create a LF bump....if you are a musician you know what I am talking about it...bassist are known to use their hands to create percussive notes. In the video the "bass bump" ie the percussive note the bassist is creating, is at about centered slightly above 20hz according what the rta looks like,
For a free lessen turn on just your sub and watch the bassist's hands during the groove I time cued. Its on 2 and 4
For a free lessen turn on just your sub and watch the bassist's hands during the groove I time cued. Its on 2 and 4
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Also.....As I eq and get a better transfer function....the speakers are seeming to disappear into each other. So without hearing the best of both, I cannot say anything with authority, I also know that time alignment and phase correction the scenario gets better. Still the localization of midbass is going to put MTM at an advantage. Playing a 50hz tone through my system and believing that if I had two side firing woofers separated by 32inchs and its going to sound as well. Sounds like a stretch. Even with using multiple subwoofers to achieve a flat FR is compromise to the stereo image, if thinking in ultimates.
That's not true. HFs dominate the formation of image and distributed subs do nothing to degrade it.
So why would having 2 sources up front covering 20-20khz perfectly not be better than 4 sources, being, the front 2 cover 20-20khz perfectly and the rear 2 cover 80-20hz just to help out....for some unknown reason...
How are there 2 rights?
I disagree about subs not being apart of the image....How shall I prove myself wrong?
How are there 2 rights?
I disagree about subs not being apart of the image....How shall I prove myself wrong?
You changed the premise. We(you) are talking about subs not full range speakers. Whatever imaging (if any) may occur for subs, it will be masked by the HF imaging in a full range situation.
When you say masked I wonder what the means. Im pretty sure, for example, if we listen to the bass solo...its going to sound like the deep bass is coming from every place there is a sub lol
depending on how the subs are leveled, you could move the bass to the front or back of the room. Its taping into 3d sound recreation but only 2d material being used.
depending on how the subs are leveled, you could move the bass to the front or back of the room. Its taping into 3d sound recreation but only 2d material being used.
So can many other instruments, have a listen to this and analyse the spectrum, the thumps and pops are very low.
This feels quite different on something that can reproduce the infrasonics vs something that cuts them out.
Not if the instruments harmonics were coming from specific locations. The image perception would key-in on the harmonics, not the fundamental.
Intuition, belief and the reality of acoustics almost never agree with each other.
I agree, and tread lightly, but I am not going to pretend like I cant tell where my subs are in the room. I have 2 subs currently available for experimentation, what should I try?
I believe that atmos systems are proof enough sub woofers are apart of the image, and that sub location matters. Its literally how they create the 3d sound image, full spectrum. Having 2 stereo mains and surrounding your self with subs is a move towards 3d, not stereo. You have 3d bass but stereo mids and treble
I believe that atmos systems are proof enough sub woofers are apart of the image, and that sub location matters. Its literally how they create the 3d sound image, full spectrum. Having 2 stereo mains and surrounding your self with subs is a move towards 3d, not stereo. You have 3d bass but stereo mids and treble
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You have 2 eyes, do you "see" 3D or stereo? 😉
True stereo can reproduce something more than being able to point at speakers... haven't you heard that?
If you hear your sub's position, it might make more sounds than it should.
True stereo can reproduce something more than being able to point at speakers... haven't you heard that?
If you hear your sub's position, it might make more sounds than it should.
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I can see x,y,z with two eyes....I can hear the same with 2 ears...with just 2 drivers Z is a spacial effect/trick, a goal not fully realized....with 4 drivers surrounding me...I now have a source located in front and behind me at times where only sound is meant to be in front of me.
Filter the sub with the crossover and listen to that only with eyes closed and "see" if you can locate it. If you can then measure the output and check if the sub is making any noises or anything that your brain can lock onto the position of.
I struggle to see what the point is when you intend to put the subs underneath the mid in any case.
The ear pointing at the sub is always going to be louder than the ear turned away from the sub...dont have to test to figure that out.
If one does that, then make sure that it is music that you listen to not sine waves. A steady state LF sine wave can be localized once the ear looks-in on the signal and that exaggerates the effect. Your perception of this case is many times greater than with music where there isn't enough time for the brain to lock-in.
The experiment to do is to point your ear at the sub and note when you couldn't tell if the sub as coming from the left or right.....
My speakers are sitting 1/3 onto one side of the room, facing the other 2/3rds....If I backup near the wall where you get bass boundary effect, I can actually find a spot where the side of ear facing away from the speaker has louder spl, on mic and my ear. Yet the other parts of the signal not in the mode lead me to the driver with no issues.....
would it be fair to say, that under certain conditions, one cannot locate sub bass?
My speakers are sitting 1/3 onto one side of the room, facing the other 2/3rds....If I backup near the wall where you get bass boundary effect, I can actually find a spot where the side of ear facing away from the speaker has louder spl, on mic and my ear. Yet the other parts of the signal not in the mode lead me to the driver with no issues.....
would it be fair to say, that under certain conditions, one cannot locate sub bass?
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With music, I would say yes, but one caveat is that with certain signals it may be possible. But for the most part, in small rooms like we are talking, it's a non-issue to me.
My system localizes superbly, even the bass, but I cannot localize the sub locations themselves. Any more than I can localize the mains themselves. A "good" system just does not do that.
Presumably, the LH9045R and LH6040R - that were specifically designed for the Axi, are no longer in production due to the high manufacturing costs and resulting high retail prices (£950 and £1050 apiece respectively).