I very much agree with that.
In fact, it's one of the highest critiques I have at most college/uni books and courses.
Most are way to heavy on the math, and heavily lack on explaining ways on an engineering and science level.
There is also nothing wrong with asking things at all.
In fact, I highly encourage people to ask questions and more importantly discover things themselves by doing as well as diving into the material.
But I also encourage people to at least to try to read those kind of books.
Mostly just to teach people a certain way of thinking.
Because to understand certain things, one just needs to have a certain level or at least an understanding of certain base principles.
It's also definitely not OR, OR, but AND, AND.
So AND reading books AND asking questions as well.
btw, quite a few of those books aren't heavy on math at all.
edit: I double checked, most of them actually don't go deep into the math.
Last edited:
If only you had posted this a couple weeks ago!
I was recently visiting Portland, OR and made my regular stop at Powell’s books. They had an early edition of this book on the shelves and while I was flipping through it a clerk came by who was filling online orders. I looked at the slip in her hand and of course it was for this exact book. I didn’t have the heart to deny an online order, so I handed it over. As somebody who appreciates this thread, I wish I hadn’t done this.
As someone with dyscalculia, reading books and papers is still the best thing I’ve ever spent time on in my personal journey into audio engineering.
Like you, I think that things would go a lot smoother if the cycle was closer to:
1) try to read a book or paper
2) get stuck - it happens to the best people
3) ask for advice or help on a specific concept, with example references to equations or diagrams in the text
4) continue on once the topic is clarified
That’s a huge benefit of doing a course, too. You’re paying for the lecturers’ help as a resource, not just the prepared material.
It’s worth noting that “Googling something” is considered the lowest level of ‘research’. Swap to Google Scholar, and you might have more luck. But yeah there will be maths. Don’t be ashamed to keep Kahn Academy open in a tab!
In fact, camplo, you’re not the first or only person to do ‘social engineering’. Frankly, I’d be stuck without it. However, I’ve always tried to get most of the way to an answer myself, and then ask someone who is much smarter or more experienced than myself to correct my mistakes. In any technical field, that works better than asking people to brain dump for you or being antagonistic.
paul7052
grec
Neither of these members have posted a thing in approximately 2 weeks....The last thread they commented on....was mine. They commented very enthusiastically in a negative way...seems as if they have some type of focus on my thread....Lets see how that works for them.
pS - Dear admin, people like this sometimes have interior motives of causing chaos in a thread in order to get that particular thread locked. I ask that the mods pay attention in order to not let that happen here.
Anyone who doesn't like the nature of this thread or the discussion that is had here, is free to leave.
Thank you to the board for being a wonderful place that has shared its collective wisdom, intelligence, and experience. I will continue to express my gratitude because it is genuine, no less, is the time people have spent on helping me take my mastering monitor project, as well, my applied loud speaker theory, to the next level.
Sincerely
You're fav devils advocate =)
grec
Neither of these members have posted a thing in approximately 2 weeks....The last thread they commented on....was mine. They commented very enthusiastically in a negative way...seems as if they have some type of focus on my thread....Lets see how that works for them.
pS - Dear admin, people like this sometimes have interior motives of causing chaos in a thread in order to get that particular thread locked. I ask that the mods pay attention in order to not let that happen here.
Anyone who doesn't like the nature of this thread or the discussion that is had here, is free to leave.
Thank you to the board for being a wonderful place that has shared its collective wisdom, intelligence, and experience. I will continue to express my gratitude because it is genuine, no less, is the time people have spent on helping me take my mastering monitor project, as well, my applied loud speaker theory, to the next level.
Sincerely
You're fav devils advocate =)
Last edited:
Full range 2-way? Sure, it has been done. Martin Logan. Big ES panel and a sub.
Or many PA speakers with 12 or 15's crossed over to a big JBL horn. The original Ohm AMT I think was a 2-way. BG panels could pull it off, but alas, they are gone. Many years ago, the original Jordan Modules in a line array got low enough. The Bose line array PA system is a 2-way. Other than that, it gets pretty hard.
Or many PA speakers with 12 or 15's crossed over to a big JBL horn. The original Ohm AMT I think was a 2-way. BG panels could pull it off, but alas, they are gone. Many years ago, the original Jordan Modules in a line array got low enough. The Bose line array PA system is a 2-way. Other than that, it gets pretty hard.
Big ES panels plus a sub....can't imagine that being a bad combination. I would want to have the ES panel be sealed in the back, though.
The lack of dynamic attenuation is a high priority for me....I know that a driver like this reproduces the impulse very well, but how does it perform regarding dynamic compression.
The lack of dynamic attenuation is a high priority for me....I know that a driver like this reproduces the impulse very well, but how does it perform regarding dynamic compression.
Does anyone have a recommendation for a 15" woofer to best the AE 15m... Something with a similar or lighter Mmd/Mms...
It was said earlier in this thread that it would be wise to keep mmd under 80g for a midrange driver....Mmd/Mms vs Sound quality of a specific sized woofer is another controversial topic if I am not mistaken, so I have never came to a conclusion of what the scientific truth is. I just know that when ever someone complains about a higher mmd, the common retort is that Motor strength can compensate so thus mmd/mms can be seen as a null issue? Something like that.
It was said earlier in this thread that it would be wise to keep mmd under 80g for a midrange driver....Mmd/Mms vs Sound quality of a specific sized woofer is another controversial topic if I am not mistaken, so I have never came to a conclusion of what the scientific truth is. I just know that when ever someone complains about a higher mmd, the common retort is that Motor strength can compensate so thus mmd/mms can be seen as a null issue? Something like that.
Last edited:
Most or all of these require a sub as they are designed as high sensitive tops from 80Hz or so in light weight small cabinets, they boost at 100Hz to give that tight punch but no subsonics. I don’t say it can’t be done but it would require a larger cabinet and lower sensitivity and power handling overall and probably other driver types. I’m playing around with 12” PA coax these days and while it’s very fun it’s also a give and take on the gains.
Thanks for those suggestions Barossi. I've definitely seen these drivers before but as I understand what I am looking at, better, and become more serious about this mid range issue, they mean different things now.
I really wanted to have a 16ohm mid but I am not sure if it is possible to get all the other things in the package.
What is the legitimacy of this statement? The AE15m has a EBP of 99 and the 15pr400 rates at 103...
Both have the same Fs, 35 vs 34.7 to be exact.
So the Faital pro is at the advantage here correct?
Why is Tad and Altec not brought up in my thread when I ask about a top performing 15" for this project?? I'm curious.
I really wanted to have a 16ohm mid but I am not sure if it is possible to get all the other things in the package.
What is the legitimacy of this statement? The AE15m has a EBP of 99 and the 15pr400 rates at 103...
Both have the same Fs, 35 vs 34.7 to be exact.
So the Faital pro is at the advantage here correct?
Why is Tad and Altec not brought up in my thread when I ask about a top performing 15" for this project?? I'm curious.
Last edited:
Linked a test of the Faital w/adjusted TS parameters.
FAITAL 15PR400-8 (Woofer 15", 8 Ohm, 800 Wmax)
FAITAL 15PR400-8 (Woofer 15", 8 Ohm, 800 Wmax)
No TAD because they are unavaillable afaik.
15pr400 are your best best imho.
Bad news regarding the AE?
Altec can be availlable ( clone) through Great Plain Audio though.
That said i had bad experience with small 'artisans' ( small brands) so now i favour 'bigger' brands. Hence why i don't advice for niche market products ( even if they are 'specials' like AE or GPA and no substitute exists... but that is me).
15pr400 are your best best imho.
Bad news regarding the AE?
Altec can be availlable ( clone) through Great Plain Audio though.
That said i had bad experience with small 'artisans' ( small brands) so now i favour 'bigger' brands. Hence why i don't advice for niche market products ( even if they are 'specials' like AE or GPA and no substitute exists... but that is me).
Last edited:
The 15FH500 is one of the only woofers to come in 16 ohms if that is important. A lower EBP not dissimilar to a TAD, more xmax, pretty flat response no horrible breakup until quite high, and not much of a surround dip.
If you order through TLHP you could probably have them in your hands in a week or so if there is no US availability.
There is no one answer that will satisfy every possible criteria and many theories, so you either go with a science and data minded person like Earl and choose a heavier high damping cone with more Bl or go with an Altec style super light cone, or hedge your bets and go somewhere in between.
I kind of hedged my bets and bought 15FH500 and 12PR320 just in case
New aspect for me, how does EBP affect sound quality. It would seem high is better.
I did wonder but never new what his preferences was. I tend to aim for the scientific as well but I would never thought that heavy vs light would lean to be more so...I would hypothesis that each has its on pros and cons and probably leaned towards a light cone.
If you had 2 woofers, one Heavy and one Light....matching BL/mass ratios, whats that do?