The dogs sound like they are way back in the trees manymany metres from the wall behind the speakers. We do have real frogs, and if that was part of that bit, it was not well done.
dave
no, the dog barks started at 00:12 in the track should be at your 5 o'clock.
tv conversation started at 00:22 in the track should be at your
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Here are the results from the LEDR test.
Up Left and up right simply all sound from the speaker, no movement up or down.
Over was all sound from one speaker that got softer then softer from the other speaker and then loader. Now moving sound, no arc.
Lateral and behind pretty much the same as Over
Diana Krall, sound of hear voice from the right speaker and piano from both, not really in the middle, sometimes from the right sometimes from the left, not really between or out side the speakers.
Rodger Waters, more sounds but almost all anchored to right or left, no center, no depth, no height. I guess I'm just defective.
As to the LSD not working, it sure did, just no visuals or audio effects beyond everything being funny or strange, just an entirely internal experience. Marijuana effected me the opposite as my friends, I lost my appetite and couldn't sleep because my mind would be thinking in high gear and keep me awake. Cocaine didn't do much, but if it was real good it just made me feel good and want more, so I stopped trying that real quick.
Up Left and up right simply all sound from the speaker, no movement up or down.
Over was all sound from one speaker that got softer then softer from the other speaker and then loader. Now moving sound, no arc.
Lateral and behind pretty much the same as Over
Diana Krall, sound of hear voice from the right speaker and piano from both, not really in the middle, sometimes from the right sometimes from the left, not really between or out side the speakers.
Rodger Waters, more sounds but almost all anchored to right or left, no center, no depth, no height. I guess I'm just defective.
As to the LSD not working, it sure did, just no visuals or audio effects beyond everything being funny or strange, just an entirely internal experience. Marijuana effected me the opposite as my friends, I lost my appetite and couldn't sleep because my mind would be thinking in high gear and keep me awake. Cocaine didn't do much, but if it was real good it just made me feel good and want more, so I stopped trying that real quick.
@mtidge
Haven't had time to read the whole thread yet, but do have a few thoughts regarding some issues raised in the initial post:
Have you ever tried listening to a room? Say, clap your hands and then just listen to the room echo a little. Better than clapping hands are wood blocks or claves (e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Latin-Percus...51671&sprefix=wood+percussion,aps,135&sr=8-29 )
Try it in a big room, try it in a bathroom and focus attention on how the room responds after you 'excite' it.
IME some people have a very acute sense of reverberations and other people focus attention on the initial excitation itself. In the latter case any room reverberation may be rejected by the brain as some kind of unwanted noise to be ignored (at least in terms of aural perception presented to conscious awareness).
With some practice you might be able to train yourself not to ignore the sound of space you are in. That's actually something I had to do. (Also trained myself to notice other sounds, but maybe that's a subject for another thread.)
Haven't had time to read the whole thread yet, but do have a few thoughts regarding some issues raised in the initial post:
Have you ever tried listening to a room? Say, clap your hands and then just listen to the room echo a little. Better than clapping hands are wood blocks or claves (e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Latin-Percus...51671&sprefix=wood+percussion,aps,135&sr=8-29 )
Try it in a big room, try it in a bathroom and focus attention on how the room responds after you 'excite' it.
IME some people have a very acute sense of reverberations and other people focus attention on the initial excitation itself. In the latter case any room reverberation may be rejected by the brain as some kind of unwanted noise to be ignored (at least in terms of aural perception presented to conscious awareness).
With some practice you might be able to train yourself not to ignore the sound of space you are in. That's actually something I had to do. (Also trained myself to notice other sounds, but maybe that's a subject for another thread.)
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I was going to suggest smoking some bud and listening with lights off and eyes closed......for me this is almost a religious experience.
Regarding reproduction of the sound of space captured in a recording, looks like some people have already pointed out that some systems differ in their ability to reproduce low level reverberations accurately, some recordings do not capture such sounds very well, and or some rooms and speaker placements therein don't work as well as others.
A few articles of possible interest at: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?...+linkwitz&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart
A few articles of possible interest at: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?...+linkwitz&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart
Yes, that's the big trip up here. Perhaps it's just the system that doesn't do 3D very well. However, I suspect that mtige would have figured that out by now. The room and speakers have to be far above average to get a strong effect, but finding systems like that isn't difficult.
Pano is correct, I have 50 years experience with many systems. It is possible that everything I have listened to is a sub standard system but that is improbable. I would opine that once in fifty years I would get even a poor stereo illusion instead of no illusion. There is still one store in my area, I will go there and ask the to setup the best imaging setup they can put together and if that doesn't work maybe I can find some researchers at Yale that can try to figure me out.
You've already mentioned you do hear in stereo naturally when not listening to speakers, outdoors for example. So if you can hear naturally directional point sources then it must be the system's limitations. You're probably just more honest than the rest of us. Kazap in post#26 is spot on about the recording as are a couple of others. We all want our systems to be well set up and evidenced/verified by our experience but it usually leaves a lot to be desired. Couple that with the critical requirements of set up in order to glean what little effect is usually there, and the result is actually a bit lackluster for most recordings. Hence the sound effects invented to enhance the experience like Q Sound. By far the most prominent characteristic of typical stereo sound is simple right and left which was alluded to when the Beatles were mentioned. The mono recordings were remixed into simple stereo. Not just Beatles but others also. System set up is also far more critical than seems to be recognized by most imo. I listen to Acoustat Monitor 3 about 12' away and I can tell you that the image engineered into a typical recording reverts to simple right and left by about 80% if symmetry is off by just 1mm. If I walk past one speaker and just brush against it I've thrown it off enough to make me have to nudge it back into alignment. My Kef 105s have an alignment window with an LED behind a cross hatch and the mid-tweeter cabs swivel in order to get them exactly right so there's another example of the critical nature of correct set up. Also, you will find depth perception is greatly enhanced just by making sure the distance from your ears to the wall behind you is exactly the same as the distance from the speakers to the wall behind them. Symmetry is everything, without which other room issues are really moot because you won't know there true effect otherwise.
I don't think that trying to change our stereo/multichannel systems by changing speakers or adding a center channel is going to suddenly give mtidge a stereo image.
If you try to understand aphantasy, for instance look it up on wikipedia, it is the inability to form mental images. Any mental images.
It's not an issue of the external equipment not being 'good enough' to 'project' an image.
It a mental condition.
What interests me is how aphantasy influences daily live. For instance, if someone tells me a story, I sort of automagically get mental images of how the situation was, what was going on, etc.
@mtidge how does that work for you?
Jan
If you try to understand aphantasy, for instance look it up on wikipedia, it is the inability to form mental images. Any mental images.
It's not an issue of the external equipment not being 'good enough' to 'project' an image.
It a mental condition.
What interests me is how aphantasy influences daily live. For instance, if someone tells me a story, I sort of automagically get mental images of how the situation was, what was going on, etc.
@mtidge how does that work for you?
Jan
DiscoPete,
See post #53, are you saying a minute adjustment will compromise stereo image or totally destroy it?
jan,
If someone tells me a story or I'm reading my mind will actually create a "reality", but it is just concepts or objects, it does not get projected into the sensory parts of my brain. I suspect that a normal brain also works at this kind of pure thought, concept, object level, then projects it to the sensory systems where most people then either watch, listen or interoperate. I seem to skip those steps which may also explain why I usually will have a solution to a problem quicker than other people. A question I will get is "How did you know that?" or "Explain how you came to that conclusion?". My first answer would be I just knew it, but then I will kind of do a forensic investigation to put together the thought process that will support my conclusion. It is sort of like math tests in school, the teacher wanted you to show your work, so most times I knew the answer but I had slow down and think out the steps to put them on paper. Once I know how something works I don't need to focus on the rules or process I no longer need to focus on them, that part of my brain will do the processing with out me being conscious of it.
See post #53, are you saying a minute adjustment will compromise stereo image or totally destroy it?
jan,
If someone tells me a story or I'm reading my mind will actually create a "reality", but it is just concepts or objects, it does not get projected into the sensory parts of my brain. I suspect that a normal brain also works at this kind of pure thought, concept, object level, then projects it to the sensory systems where most people then either watch, listen or interoperate. I seem to skip those steps which may also explain why I usually will have a solution to a problem quicker than other people. A question I will get is "How did you know that?" or "Explain how you came to that conclusion?". My first answer would be I just knew it, but then I will kind of do a forensic investigation to put together the thought process that will support my conclusion. It is sort of like math tests in school, the teacher wanted you to show your work, so most times I knew the answer but I had slow down and think out the steps to put them on paper. Once I know how something works I don't need to focus on the rules or process I no longer need to focus on them, that part of my brain will do the processing with out me being conscious of it.
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