There is 'handmade' and there is poor workmanship, I do not
think the two should be equated with each other.
I have often seen shoddy products marketed as 'handmade' and
this really riles me😡
This can especially be the case with artwork, as genuinely loose and vital artistic styles can lend themselves to very poor imitation,
with the consequence that those with a less honed artistic
eye can be 'taken in' and relieved of their hard earned cash.
😡
Regarding the amp in question, I guess if the designer achieved
the sonic results aimed for using this method of construction
then why change it?
And for some light relief😉 this was my most tedious p2p project
to date..
Setmenu
think the two should be equated with each other.
I have often seen shoddy products marketed as 'handmade' and
this really riles me😡
This can especially be the case with artwork, as genuinely loose and vital artistic styles can lend themselves to very poor imitation,
with the consequence that those with a less honed artistic
eye can be 'taken in' and relieved of their hard earned cash.
😡
Regarding the amp in question, I guess if the designer achieved
the sonic results aimed for using this method of construction
then why change it?
And for some light relief😉 this was my most tedious p2p project
to date..
Setmenu
Attachments
It's not surprising to hear that many GC devotees don't seem to think that the standard of soldering or construction is important. It seems that the most important things are the plastic covering on the capacitors, the material the heatsinks are made from and the type of feet fitted to the case.
Maybe they should change the name to "🤐 You Labs".
Maybe they should change the name to "🤐 You Labs".
I don't understand why some of you think that quality of soldering is not good. Ever tried to solder without mask? It's basically how it comes out in those pictures, you just can't make it any better.
And solder mask apparently affects sound as much as isolation type on cables😉
And solder mask apparently affects sound as much as isolation type on cables😉
Kuei Yang Wang said:
I wouldn't mind working on that project, but further support would be required, as you all know, I can't be considered an amp designer.😉
The small cap between the two big PS caps looks like is not in the NFB but is connected between the +V and -V of the PS. Maybe 10-100 uf/63-100VDC.
Peter is right that without Solder mask you can't get better-looking solders. Whether the Solder mask deteriorates the sound that's a different matter. One of the input hanging caps is scary close to the pcb though.
/Greg
Peter is right that without Solder mask you can't get better-looking solders. Whether the Solder mask deteriorates the sound that's a different matter. One of the input hanging caps is scary close to the pcb though.
/Greg
hmm sounds better with big globs of solder i think ill get my local plumber to build my next amp😉
http://www.mrrooter.com
ill go with the globs of solder thing but the slide potentiometer you will never sell me on that🙄
http://www.mrrooter.com
ill go with the globs of solder thing but the slide potentiometer you will never sell me on that🙄
I'm selling one of my GCs
Internally all silver solder.😉
You can open it, you won't be shocked.
8,000 Euros.
Deal?
😀
Internally all silver solder.😉
You can open it, you won't be shocked.
8,000 Euros.
Deal?
😀
Peter Daniel said:
Speak for yourself. 😀
Yeah, soldering to bare copperclad ain't exactly like soldering to a masked board, but I assure you that it's possible to produce much less globular joints than are seen in the photos.
By the way, here's the Gaincard.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
se
Well, we could argue whether we would be here on a chip amp forum if it wasn't for the original Gaincard amplifier.
And once again 47 Labs have provided material for an entertaining debate. Whatever the merits of their equipment, we should be grateful for the interest that their products generate!
And once again 47 Labs have provided material for an entertaining debate. Whatever the merits of their equipment, we should be grateful for the interest that their products generate!
Nuuk said:
Absolutely.
And once again 47 Labs have provided material for an entertaining debate. Whatever the merits of their equipment, we should be grateful for the interest that their products generate!
Yes.
I'm not wholly without admiration of 47 Labs. More than anything I admire 47 Labs for thumbing its nose at much of what the prevailing status quo held as axiomatic.
se
I can not comment on sound quality.But have to comment on what i see
Anybody here who endorses such build quality at this price should be ashamed regardless how this amp may sound.Afterall it contains an handful of components that cost likely less than a tenth of its sale price.
Furthermore those who endorse this amp should lose any credibility when it comes to claims about loading bars capacitor clamping or anything else you do not see.
2000 Euros for this pile of dog S******* with it P**S poor casework is really taking the P**S,I bet the salesman would laugh and say a mug born everyday.
This amp is not some kitchen top DIY it's a commercial item,perhaps made on the kitchen top
Anybody here who endorses such build quality at this price should be ashamed regardless how this amp may sound.Afterall it contains an handful of components that cost likely less than a tenth of its sale price.
Furthermore those who endorse this amp should lose any credibility when it comes to claims about loading bars capacitor clamping or anything else you do not see.
2000 Euros for this pile of dog S******* with it P**S poor casework is really taking the P**S,I bet the salesman would laugh and say a mug born everyday.
This amp is not some kitchen top DIY it's a commercial item,perhaps made on the kitchen top
PeteM said:
It's just a different approach (and different design philosophy), but it's still not completely settled which one actually is better😉
Peter
I would not argue which way is better regarding builds I did an apprentice many years ago and was spoon fed on Boxford and Myford lathes & milling machines.
Not having access to such equipment leaves me knowing only the way I build now on my kitchen worktop.
Point I am making is on a constructional point of view (not sonic related) is the build from my armchair looks very poor given the price tag.
It very much reminds me of the mass produced folded tin toys I played with back in the sixties,look at Amp-1 and look at this product.Surely you would not tell me you would be happy to put your name to this
I would not argue which way is better regarding builds I did an apprentice many years ago and was spoon fed on Boxford and Myford lathes & milling machines.
Not having access to such equipment leaves me knowing only the way I build now on my kitchen worktop.
Point I am making is on a constructional point of view (not sonic related) is the build from my armchair looks very poor given the price tag.
It very much reminds me of the mass produced folded tin toys I played with back in the sixties,look at Amp-1 and look at this product.Surely you would not tell me you would be happy to put your name to this
I agree that what we've seen in those pics, doesn't justify the price tag. But, OTOH, we all know by far, that what it sounds like definitely is worth that price. That we all can build it ourselves even much better, is a totally different story😉
That build quality looks much the same as I’ve found in $10, 200W PC speakers of unknown brand, probably assembled in India/China at almost no labour costs.
That the LM chips from National sound good, was/is known long before Shigaraki made it hype (the chips are actually quite old). What is really a shame is that it was necessary that the chips needed to be sold for several thousands of bucks (by Shigaraki) to be recognised 🙄
Cheers 😉
That the LM chips from National sound good, was/is known long before Shigaraki made it hype (the chips are actually quite old). What is really a shame is that it was necessary that the chips needed to be sold for several thousands of bucks (by Shigaraki) to be recognised 🙄
Cheers 😉
Konnichiwa,
Hmmm. I can appreciate your angle, but having the view from both sides....
Strong words.
As it so happens, I know a € 2,250 Product. The manufacturer (it is "handbuild in the EU" and has quite a few solder joins etc and no - not all are as perfect looking as flow soldering, especially not with low lead content solders) makes € 400 for the effort. Now as it happens the manufacturer believes (correctly) that is product is outstanding, in all but final internal fit & finish. Customers feel it offers a more than excellent price perfoamce ratio, compared to the rest of the market (eg spanks the butt of products many times it's price).
Now I am sure the product could be made fully automated much cheaper. This would of course also imply any number of changes that would not be conductive to sound quality and would require a massive investment into machines first. Now we are talking literally 100's of thousands for machinery and tooling, on uncertain sales. It is hard to find that kind of investment money.
Of course, some people will call this particular hardworking gentleman and his employees fraudsters, for making a fairly frugal living from the product.
Sayonara
PeteM said:
Hmmm. I can appreciate your angle, but having the view from both sides....
PeteM said:
Strong words.
As it so happens, I know a € 2,250 Product. The manufacturer (it is "handbuild in the EU" and has quite a few solder joins etc and no - not all are as perfect looking as flow soldering, especially not with low lead content solders) makes € 400 for the effort. Now as it happens the manufacturer believes (correctly) that is product is outstanding, in all but final internal fit & finish. Customers feel it offers a more than excellent price perfoamce ratio, compared to the rest of the market (eg spanks the butt of products many times it's price).
Now I am sure the product could be made fully automated much cheaper. This would of course also imply any number of changes that would not be conductive to sound quality and would require a massive investment into machines first. Now we are talking literally 100's of thousands for machinery and tooling, on uncertain sales. It is hard to find that kind of investment money.
Of course, some people will call this particular hardworking gentleman and his employees fraudsters, for making a fairly frugal living from the product.
Sayonara
PeteM said:
😀 🙂 😎
It may be shocking for you, but in high-end things cost the price of what they sound.
I value much more an 100 Euro amp than an 100 Euro interconnect cable.
Which one costs more to produce?
And there are 2,000 Euros interconnects.
Anyway, the offer is still standing:
One of my GCs for 8,000 Euros?
🙂
I see most of you have never seen a handmade racing bicycle without the paint. If you did, you'd wonder why Lance Armstrong thinks they're so great. And yet, the boy keeps on winning. Hmmm....
It's an amp, not a photograph. Who cares how it looks... If I can't pull the wires from the board, then the solder is doing it's job. If it still sounds great after I try that, then so what if it's a bit blobby. Maybe he uses flame to solder for a different type of contamination in joint. Who knows? Who cares?
🙂ensen.
It's an amp, not a photograph. Who cares how it looks... If I can't pull the wires from the board, then the solder is doing it's job. If it still sounds great after I try that, then so what if it's a bit blobby. Maybe he uses flame to solder for a different type of contamination in joint. Who knows? Who cares?
🙂ensen.
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