in my situation which FR could you be married?

Trouble with most TB drivers over 4” is they beam a lot. Even some of their 4” beam quite early. It’s strange as the cone don’t look so deep, but it’s a fact.
I’d go smaller if paired with a good 8” that can be crossed high enough to keep the power on the bigger cone.
Or go with the TB W8-1772. That one, strangely enough beams less than their 5”. But that’s another level of budget, and the 1772 will need EQ to sound good, but as the OP has active XO and EQ, than that could be an avenue. -: @Pierrick59 What are your listening habbits? Do you sit fixed in a favorite listening position, or would you prefer to have your room filled with pleasant sound?

FIFTY FIVE sqm room for listening?????? o_O

You need some serious firepower!

.... the size of those drivers is not made for serious volume : Here we have to consider what is serious listening level for @Pierrick59 You are probably right though.
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For a 55 sq meter room, I would suggest a FAST/WAW TL using a ScanSpeak 10F/8424 and Dayton RS225-8 woofer. The full range works from 900Hz on up. The crossover is first order transient perfect so the phase and integration sounds like a single driver from 50Hz to 15kHz.

I have built and listened to a lot of speakers over the years but this continues to be my main speaker after 8 years. An 8 year marriage and still going strong is pretty good in the DIY audio world! 🤣

Beautiful build of this speaker by @as8912:

Here is a measurement of the response, there are some room effects and floor bounce etc below 300Hz:
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55 sqm listening room

Dimensions? 5.5 x 10m? Ceiling height?

A bit smaller than mine, but if it has a flat ceiling way less volume to fill.

NAD 356BEE (it could be changed, an amp or preamp can be studied)

Many NADs are nice eniff to have a pre-amp out and a power amps in… yours has two pre-outs. 80 watts. What do you currently use to drive the woofers.

C356BEE 1.jpg

The stock analog sections are useless. Might be OK as a sub XO and EQ only.

What DAC?

It is not possible to marry with one loudspeaker.


Most diy loudspeaker builders do not stap at 1. You hve a CHR70 build (which one?), this is your second venture? Vix, he has ro build #2 before he can do #3. P7HD ia certainly a sweet spot in the line…

Frugel-Horn XL with Alpair 10.3 or 11ms, or if it can be taller maybe some Silbury from Woden design

Good suggestions for a bigger loudspeaker, woofers would likely be superfuloius or crossed really low.

A10.3 is NLA and getting hard to find. I am working on a tweaks to the A11ms (and A7ms) that (mostly?) kills the “tizz” at the top. Other than that i really like them. Bernie built a paitr of solid FHXL w A!!ms. (i currently am listening to the first modded a11ms in Compact FloorStanderr dMar-Ken.

I hav eto take some pictures of the CFSers, here is FH3 with A7ms and Pensil11ms. All solid wood and right up in quality/koolfactor as the Sibelis.

Bernie-FH3-A7ms.jpeg Pensil11ms-solid-bernie.jpeg

you can consider a WAW design

How high up can your 12” reach? What klind are they?

Also consider designs which incorporate two identical full range drivers per box. Double the power handling, significant increase in efficiency, potentially unique listening experience and aesthetics.

His room size might limit the levels of a microTower castle, but it seems to keeppopping up recently.

ScanSpeak 10F/8424

There is a FR version of this MR tha has better top. Pricey too.

3FE22 or 3FE25 is also very good

The 16Ω Neo magnet ones i have a good, but not a P7HD. Coating th econe improved them further. Almost as good as FF85wk or Alpair 5.2/3


PS: i would noramlly have done a zillion posts instead of this monster… late to the thread
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Hello Dave,

glad to hear you

the celling height is 2.50m and a beautifull flat celling
exactly 5.5x10m
For the NAD i use out in the upper part
i see my translate is not really good i would tell i can buy an other if necessary
As dac i use my computer and external sound card behringher 404hd but thing i will change this too
for my 12" it's RCF 12G301 in a subwoofer in TL building, it's average flat to 200hz.
Dave, have you made for you if you have the average size of room?
Your subwoofers sound great for mating with full-ranges in a 2.2 or 2.1 amplification setup.
I can't see what you need your NADs preamp section fore.
-If your soundcard can switch sources and have digital output can't you send it to inuke and let inuke send high frequencies to another amp for full-rangers? -You can use NADs main in till you find a more suitable poweramp for full-ranges.
NAD 2600 or maybe a smaller of their Class G poweramps are highly rated and old so can be found both cheap and overprized 😊
This method is considering that your dcx has digital input or you modify it for this.
If dcx has digital out there are loads of great sounding ampboards that accepts digital input. -For less than you can sell your NAD for
Dave, what have you made for you if you have the average size of room?

Guerilla the dcx make A/N conversion not at the best resolution but not bad
replace my amp is still open i will try to chose between different driver that everybody recommand me and i will see for the rest of the chain
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Dave, what have you made for you if you have the average size of room?

That is a pretty long list with a lot of quite different solutions.

If your sun scan go up to 200 Hz (they should have responce up to about 1 kHz) you can consider something that only needs to reach that low. As you cross lower there is some benefit to wider enclosures.

i will to rest on my first idea:

  • 1 FR driver
  • more power as possible over the PLuvia 7.2HD
  • fewest/ no correction as possible, to be used alone, well thinking enclosure to achieve that
  • if i not happy with these i can and my subwoofer, and if i'm still not happy make a WAW,
  • i see more a driver between 10 to 12 cm driver? (bigger drivers seems to need big correction i'm affraid to loose the dynamic)

what do you think?
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what do you think?

THX reference: mains, surrounds = 105 dB/channel & 115 dB/LFE (subs <120 Hz at low distortion) @ listening position (Lp), so find loudest average SPL/m you feel is required and add +12 dB/4x power handling for 4 m and choose drivers to handle these performance specs to insure a high SQ performance for all except maybe whatever music genre with the super strong (thumping/monotonous) bassline.

IOW, unless your max peak SPL is quite modest and/or listening to (very) compressed music and/or watch DVD/BR movies at much lower than reference, then based on stereo = +3 dB/m, typical small 'FR' drivers likely won't please long term.
Référence THX : secteur, surround = 105 dB/canal et 115 dB/LFE (subs <120 Hz à faible distorsion) à la position d'écoute (Lp), donc trouvez le SPL/m moyen le plus fort que vous jugez nécessaire et ajoutez +12 dB/4x tenue en puissance sur 4 m et choisissez des pilotes pour gérer ces spécifications de performances afin d'assurer des performances SQ élevées pour tous, sauf peut-être pour n'importe quel genre de musique avec une ligne de basse super forte (battante/monotone).

IOW, à moins que votre SPL maximal soit assez modeste et/ou que vous écoutiez de la musique (très) compressée et/ou regardiez des films DVD/BR à un niveau bien inférieur à la référence, alors basé sur la stéréo = +3 dB/m, petit « FR » typique les conducteurs ne plairont probablement pas à long terme.
que me proposez-vous un double driver par boîte ? ou utiliser 4 boîtes ?

someone have heard maop 11 + 11ms and moap10 to let me his opinion?
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are you making correction with moap10 and 11ms?

I have yet to start the thread, but i am working on a tweak for the A11ms that sort of imitates MAOP in a sense.

MAOP bombards the from surface of a standard MA metal cone with electrons turning the top few surface into a different material. I call it a ceramic. A low-tech way of doing somewhat similar can be borrowed from a full EnABLing. It won’t make an A11ms a MAOP but, IMO, achieves an improved A11ms.

Wathc for the thread, i will need some volunteers.

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