I like the TC9 with a subwoofer. I get the system. There has to be something to the driver if Carl Marchisotto chose it, or any iteration of it. I actually spent more time adjusting the sub to it than the other way around. I avoid the bass capability of the TC9 in this application. On a lot of acoustic music, that is the first thing that comes to mind as well. In other words, don't worry about the bass, little TC9, just keep doing that midrange, just like that. The highs are actually pretty sweet as well.
Just using the soundcard's EQ, I can make this setup do pretty much anything I want. At this particular setting, you would swear there's a tweeter. Sub is crossed over at 120hz via the AVR it's connected to in this instance. At this point, I can pretty much blend the clone to the sub to what sounds right, without really messing with the midrange. Most of the other fiddling has been with the dsp for the sub.
Just using the soundcard's EQ, I can make this setup do pretty much anything I want. At this particular setting, you would swear there's a tweeter. Sub is crossed over at 120hz via the AVR it's connected to in this instance. At this point, I can pretty much blend the clone to the sub to what sounds right, without really messing with the midrange. Most of the other fiddling has been with the dsp for the sub.
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The $22 fiberglass brother of the TC9FD, the TG9FD10-8 (8ohms) sounds even better. Almost as good as the $100 Scan Speak 10F, its distant cousin.
That is much closer to the truth than saying the TC9 sounds almost as good as the 10F.
Alas, i no longer have the TG9 i can’t do a direct comparison.
dave
Dave,
Could I ask what faults did you find with TC9FD as a midtweeter? I am curious as this driver is well regarded here. I even considered buying a pair of TC9FD instead of FR88EX for my DIY experiments.
Could I ask what faults did you find with TC9FD as a midtweeter? I am curious as this driver is well regarded here. I even considered buying a pair of TC9FD instead of FR88EX for my DIY experiments.
Perhaps stand alone it is not. In the application I am using it in, there is a 20uf cap ahead of one of them. It visibly restricts the excursion, which apparently helps it to act more tweeter-ish.
The big issue we found with the TC9 is its lack of DDR — the ability to reproduce small detail. It sounds smoothed over, all the low level stuff smooshed together, great for use with TV where source quality is questionable.
This of course makes the assumption that what is in fromt of the speaker does not bury those small details before it gets to the speakers and that the listener has had sufficient real world training/experience for the ear/brain to expect/process those small details.
I will be very interested to hear MrBoat’s response after he gets his A10.3 broken in and his listening impressions from them.
dave
This of course makes the assumption that what is in fromt of the speaker does not bury those small details before it gets to the speakers and that the listener has had sufficient real world training/experience for the ear/brain to expect/process those small details.
I will be very interested to hear MrBoat’s response after he gets his A10.3 broken in and his listening impressions from them.
dave
One thing that may affect how much detail we can hear is the amp. A good Class A amp does a much better job of low level detail because the transistors never switch off right where it makes a difference - at the crossover. I have noticed that my speakers sound better from this regard when using Class A amps. This is with the SS 10F/8424. Also, the source and the DAC matter as well - so using high res files and DAC that goes above 44kHz makes a difference.
Too bad we don't have a quantifiable objective way to measure that DDR...
Now we just have to trust the opinion of 'the one' that determines if a driver is capable of presenting it or not. Even stronger than that, he can modify the drivers (that do exhibit this DDR feature) with the EnABLing process to be even better performers.
How convenient we can buy these jewels from him, isn't it? And for those that didn't hear it on the rather special and promoted drivers, well, bad luck... Your audio chain must be below par...
Think for yourself people... Take control, don't assume.
Now we just have to trust the opinion of 'the one' that determines if a driver is capable of presenting it or not. Even stronger than that, he can modify the drivers (that do exhibit this DDR feature) with the EnABLing process to be even better performers.
How convenient we can buy these jewels from him, isn't it? And for those that didn't hear it on the rather special and promoted drivers, well, bad luck... Your audio chain must be below par...
Think for yourself people... Take control, don't assume.
What he ^ said!!!
I think the lack of ddr can be described as a lack of peaks and dips that are so common to other full range drivers such as fostex, mark audio and others. The TC9 has a smooth response which means you get what you put in, no special effects added. To say that this is bad is a matter of preference. If you want faithful reproduction and enjoy a wide variety of music, the TC9 is the ticket.
I think the lack of ddr can be described as a lack of peaks and dips that are so common to other full range drivers such as fostex, mark audio and others. The TC9 has a smooth response which means you get what you put in, no special effects added. To say that this is bad is a matter of preference. If you want faithful reproduction and enjoy a wide variety of music, the TC9 is the ticket.
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Indeed. Pano started investigating a method to do this, but quit after becoming quite frustrated.
So many things in audio where we only have trained human ear/brain to test with.
dave
That is true. Stereo can do a good job of painting a 3D illusion of a performance.
A well trained auditory system can make a huge difference in what can and what cannot be detected.
dave
A well trained auditory system can make a huge difference in what can and what cannot be detected.
dave
Don't see why it should be so difficult to measure small detail, if it's there, with a microphone for example
Do keep in mind that while i can offer an opinion, i believe that a hifi only needs to as good as needed to connect the listener emotionally to the music. And where that “good enuff” is is all over the map.
dave
dave
You're the only one on each TC9 thread that just has to say so.
I could not care less what your personal opinion is. It's the way you present your "truth" that jumps out at me. You're so convinced of your truth here, it's getting in your way to learn new things.
Remember, I do not run pure drivers and hope for the best. I manipulate them to do what I want them to do. Just not by painting or coating them.
I do realize what the differences are you observe. I've heard that, it only made me more curious to find out the why. I never regretted that decision.
I can still unequivocally say that the best sounding stereo speaker I have ever heard was the Two Towers at Wesayso's in his home in Assen. Byrtt and I witnessed it together and we both agree, that I am certain that I am still in awe of the delicate yet at the same time power and clear as a bell fury that can come from 50 x TC9FD's.