I just revisited the TC9 in the Nola clone, and I finally got it right.
Just by playing with C-C distance and phase, I was able to get the flattest response I've ever had or seen for a setup without active EQ, passive notches nor even BSC, and only one capacitor in the whole signal.
Clean, clear and detailed...
Measurements and pictures here:
Need help building open baffle/bass reflex hybrid
Just by playing with C-C distance and phase, I was able to get the flattest response I've ever had or seen for a setup without active EQ, passive notches nor even BSC, and only one capacitor in the whole signal.
Clean, clear and detailed...
Measurements and pictures here:
Need help building open baffle/bass reflex hybrid
I have them wired in parallel, with the 20uf cap between them. What it seems to do more than anything is; restricts the excursion of the top driver allowing it to still allow the higher frequencies, much like a tweeter. In the current setup I am using, The subwoofer is a key part so all the TC9's really have to do is mids from 105-ish (I go to 120 crossover to relieve it to even a lesser level of distortion at higher sound levels) up. I really thought I was missing a tweeter initially but now, it's all there. These things are sweet.
I'm using very little EQ at the source since it comes from my PC to the amp. All other tone controls are off.
Here is how much EQ I am using to boost the high frequencies into tweeter territory and it is not much. The bass frequencies are only really directed at the sub, since it is crossed over at 120hz, with just a tiny bit of mid bass boost on the Nolas, possibly somewhere near the roll off between them and the sub. I have some good speakers for reference and the little Nolas are holding their own among the best of them.
ETA: If I boost the frequencies from the 4-16k sliders any further, I could actually make these speakers quite bright. Less, and they start to warm a bit.
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These speakers, and perhaps the drivers themselves shouldn't be given up on too quickly. I notice this with a lot of different speaker designs across the net, including the Fusion Tempests that I own. Users essentially condemning them to HT duty only. After a day of listening and analyzing my own, I had them dialed in to a very musical pair of speakers to where my entire living area is a sweet spot with zero room issues.
When I leave my system at the end of the evening, I turn the Nolas 90 degrees to hide the drivers from my grandkids view so they don't poke the little "buttons" in the middle. Sometimes when I turn it on when I get home, I will have sat here listening to them for an hr having forgotten to turn them towards me and they still sound good even 90 degrees off in opposite directions!
When I leave my system at the end of the evening, I turn the Nolas 90 degrees to hide the drivers from my grandkids view so they don't poke the little "buttons" in the middle. Sometimes when I turn it on when I get home, I will have sat here listening to them for an hr having forgotten to turn them towards me and they still sound good even 90 degrees off in opposite directions!
Try to wire them in series.
You might find you don't even need to EQ them at all towards the higher end.
I need to try a vented version, but with the bottom TC9 sealed, thus cutting short lower than 200Hz, I was able to get a really nice flat response. No EQ applied to get this.
There's more to the 20uf cap than just limiting excursion to the top driver. Having done a bunch of tests, I can see it also affects the mid and lower end by eliminating overlap, and the out of phase also helps flattening the response.
Pretty impressive design.
This is without any EQ, and only that 22uf cap I had ( the 400Hz dip I believe is room related) ...
You might find you don't even need to EQ them at all towards the higher end.
I need to try a vented version, but with the bottom TC9 sealed, thus cutting short lower than 200Hz, I was able to get a really nice flat response. No EQ applied to get this.
There's more to the 20uf cap than just limiting excursion to the top driver. Having done a bunch of tests, I can see it also affects the mid and lower end by eliminating overlap, and the out of phase also helps flattening the response.
Pretty impressive design.
This is without any EQ, and only that 22uf cap I had ( the 400Hz dip I believe is room related) ...
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>>> I have a pair of Dayton PA130-8...
Me too. I put mine in BIBs designed for Fostex 127e and felt the Dayton’s were more dynamic with more bass. Quite a fun and worthwhile experiment. Eventually I will work my way back to this interesting ‘full range’ driver.
I have the Vifa TC9 and think it’s very good. I added a dome tweeter (and wonder if this helped increase DDR?).
Vifa TC9 plus helper tweeter on Open Baffle | Speaker Projects by Zilla
Heard MA drivers last year at the NYC Audio Show and was impressed. They were in small boxes and were selling (I believe the speakers were sold as Part of a complete system) for upwards of $10k.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Me too. I put mine in BIBs designed for Fostex 127e and felt the Dayton’s were more dynamic with more bass. Quite a fun and worthwhile experiment. Eventually I will work my way back to this interesting ‘full range’ driver.
I have the Vifa TC9 and think it’s very good. I added a dome tweeter (and wonder if this helped increase DDR?).
Vifa TC9 plus helper tweeter on Open Baffle | Speaker Projects by Zilla
Heard MA drivers last year at the NYC Audio Show and was impressed. They were in small boxes and were selling (I believe the speakers were sold as Part of a complete system) for upwards of $10k.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Try to wire them in series.
You might find you don't even need to EQ them at all towards the higher end.
I need to try a vented version, but with the bottom TC9 sealed, thus cutting short lower than 200Hz, I was able to get a really nice flat response. No EQ applied to get this.
There's more to the 20uf cap than just limiting excursion to the top driver. Having done a bunch of tests, I can see it also affects the mid and lower end by eliminating overlap, and the out of phase also helps flattening the response.
Pretty impressive design.
This is without any EQ, and only that 22uf cap I had ( the 400Hz dip I believe is room related) ...
I will check it out when I go to do the finish work on the cabs.
I thought it kind of odd that the original version could win an award and get rave reviews, to where even guess attempts at the clones would not at least capture the essence of the design, or clues to the right direction. I wish the 16ohm version of this driver was available to try. Peerless lists it, but it isn't available anywhere I have checked.
I was wondering if the originals spec the 16 ohm drivers. Being that Nola belongs to an actual manufacturer, they may get their drivers direct, or through a direct distributor that has more purchasing options than we do.
I'm definitely going to try it, and I appreciate that you took the initiative to explore the options.
Pardon me but, what exactly does BIB stand for.
And while we are at it, if you could, what exactly do they mean by a FAST system, other than perhaps the obvious meaning of the word?
BIB = Terry Cain's BIB -why does it work and does anyone have those Fostex Craft Handbooks?
take a lunch, or bathroom break , this is a long thread
take a lunch, or bathroom break , this is a long thread
There are a lot of long threads. Got through a good portion of the TABAQ thread, as well as the mini Karlson and some others.
Regarding BIB, feel free to also look here:
BIB | Speaker Projects by Zilla
BIB Calculator | Speaker Projects by Zilla
BIB Pictures | Speaker Projects by Zilla
BIB | Speaker Projects by Zilla
BIB Calculator | Speaker Projects by Zilla
BIB Pictures | Speaker Projects by Zilla
Ok, BIB = Bigger Is Better. There is no way I could feasibly fit BIB in my humble room. Mine would tend to lean more towards, SIP (Smaller Is Practical) category. Interesting read and history behind those though.
Thank you for the links.
Fortunately, there are plenty others to try out. My room has two rather large sofas in it that most, if not all, of my speakers need to get up over, or between 23-43".
>>> SIP (Smaller Is Practical) category...
I like that. Very good.
With many fullrange drivers the sound is better with bass support. This way you get the magic of the fullrange with a full bass. This is accomplished with a larger cabinet (like a BIB) or a woofer (separate or incorporated in the design).
I’m sticking around to see what you decide to build... even if it’s a SIP.
I like that. Very good.
With many fullrange drivers the sound is better with bass support. This way you get the magic of the fullrange with a full bass. This is accomplished with a larger cabinet (like a BIB) or a woofer (separate or incorporated in the design).
I’m sticking around to see what you decide to build... even if it’s a SIP.
Agreed. It's been a solution for many desktop applications that install a single, small, FR driver into the satellites and a subwoofer. Many of which, managed to perform beyond their price.
In more ways than not, being that amplification is now cheap and hi-fi capable subwoofer drivers exist, it can end up checking most of the boxes with the least amount of compromises. It certainly allows more options with driver selection, when they don't have to have ample bass as part of their design. Especially for someone like me, who doesn't have a lot of room for large speakers. As a DIY'r, I can try a lot more smaller designs than large ones.
As far as building, I have a set of the minionken plans OTW for the Alpair 10.3M. That will be my next build and one I am looking most forward to currently.
With the PA130's, I really dig the retro look of the .53x Karlsons. I'm not too keen on foam core, but perhaps a ply/foam hybrid if it turns out the foam ends up being detrimental to that design. That way, I can try plywood first, and if I don't like it, I can cutout the centers of the panels and inset foam into rebates and likely make it look interesting, at least. Or perhaps a simple sealed or BR cabinet, being I don't have to optimize bass since I have a nice subwoofer.
Hello Did make a crossover or its without and crossover also the lower ported box what should be the dimentins of box and port size lenght. if it crossover less then even low frequency goes will it not make the driver work too much unnessessaryly . I am new in diy so asking suhc questions.After reading some of the reports of the NBT clone, I am curious as to the reported, "off axis beaming." I am not experiencing this condition. Admittedly, my room is acoustically easy. I cannot find these speakers in this room. Even near field arrangement say, 4ft back from them there is no real perception of left/right.
I built these out of 17.8mm plywood with the same external dimensions as the originals. The only difference being, I set the exterior of the slanted roof of the box section at 6", and up to the front baffle at 15 degrees from there. Also used a full 45 degree bevel behind both drivers.
I did not center the driver in the lower box section and there is exactly 2" between both drivers or approx. 5.25" OC.
I do not know how much difference these changes make, or that from using the size plywood I used. I have been trying to find a fault with these and now wish I would have made the boxes nicer. As it is, will take some creative bodywork to make them nice, being I was a little rambunctious with the RO sander.