I summarize Linux:
pro: you can configure everything
con: you must configure everything
I am a private Linux user for about 25 yrs.
pro: you can configure everything
con: you must configure everything
I am a private Linux user for about 25 yrs.
theregister is reporting uSoft just pushed an update for automatic recovery for bad updates that leave the machine unbootable. They also did a change to remove the trick to do an install without a uSoft account using bypassro.cmd They really don't want "customers" to be able to use their software without them being able to monitor them.
I tend to disagree here. Apple just works, it won't force updates and your applications will continue to work across
the updates you allow. As for the cost, your mac will continue to work, no need to follow any MS requirements. This is
written on a macbook pro made in 2012 and it still does what i need. No crashes no surprices.YMMV
My point? That Apple takes care of things in the background.
As I noted:
"If it [Apple] satisfies your needs, your wants are limited, have no desire on understanding how it works and are willing to pay a premium then might as well go that way."
You see... I first programmed an Apple IIe back in 1979, doing some intrument controls in a University Lab. Soon there after though we migrated to the Radio Shack TRS80 and even the Commodore 6502 because they were FAR more flexible.
Eventually, Apple developed into a closed ecosystem. It still is today. Again, they are fine machines for some users, but not if your needs remotely are outside of what they offer and support.
The fact that you are successfully using a 13 year old machine to do work... hmm.... And did you note that I'm using a Linux machine, PC, that has been running for more than 20 years? But I use it for LAN and networking work... because its Gig E PCI hardware -which I upgraded 10 years ago- is more than sufficient for running an Intranet Apache server and my occasional gcc/vi usage...
Oh, can you rip DVDs in your '12 Mac? Can it run WindRiver Workbench and cross compile builds in it? How about Integrity? Run a Python IDE? Git Lab? Use JIRAs? The kind of stuff that requires real CPU usage... I mean, I do run Microsoft Office 2010 under WIn 10 and 11... which is no load in the machine. But I rip CDs, DVDs, Handbrake and even an old version of Cubase SE in the latest i5/i7 machines.
As I noted, your usage of your old Mac is very limited. A word processor? We were doing that with an IMB XT back in '85 with Wordperfect! And we were building code in a 486DX4 in '94! (Win NT). Sure, byt 87 the original Macs had a nice word processor, but a tiny little screen. By the time Word came out in 3.2WG and we were using big 15 inch color CRTs you could see where the future was going.
Good luck running those applications in a 13 year old machine! Assuming, of course, you don't want those applications to take five hours to do a simple job. I mean, my older Pentiums running XT and Win7 did it, but they were... slow. And those were now 22 year old machines.
Mind you, I don't say that you're not happy, I'm happy for you, but don't extend your experience to those of us who need more horsepower in our usage of a PC of need to run more modern applications/hardware.
Does you Mac support USB3-C? Thunderbolt? ( Which, BTW, is obsolete in the Macs as of '25).
And oddly enough, the latest complaints about Windows is that it has started to do what Apple has been doing for years... shoving down upgrades down your throat and closing down their ecosystem.
To be brutally honest, I find most Apple users to be condescending, very condescending. Again, mind you, I don't defend Microsoft Windows... I think it's a PITA but I don't go around beating my chest telling the World how my choice of a PC ecosystem is the best. Because, you see, I develop software and firmware for a living... And I've been doing multimedia applications since the mid 90s.
Enjoy your closed ecosystem, but don't go around gloating that it's the best thing for the rest of the World. What works for you is not necessarily what works for others.
As I noted:
"If it [Apple] satisfies your needs, your wants are limited, have no desire on understanding how it works and are willing to pay a premium then might as well go that way."
You see... I first programmed an Apple IIe back in 1979, doing some intrument controls in a University Lab. Soon there after though we migrated to the Radio Shack TRS80 and even the Commodore 6502 because they were FAR more flexible.
Eventually, Apple developed into a closed ecosystem. It still is today. Again, they are fine machines for some users, but not if your needs remotely are outside of what they offer and support.
The fact that you are successfully using a 13 year old machine to do work... hmm.... And did you note that I'm using a Linux machine, PC, that has been running for more than 20 years? But I use it for LAN and networking work... because its Gig E PCI hardware -which I upgraded 10 years ago- is more than sufficient for running an Intranet Apache server and my occasional gcc/vi usage...
Oh, can you rip DVDs in your '12 Mac? Can it run WindRiver Workbench and cross compile builds in it? How about Integrity? Run a Python IDE? Git Lab? Use JIRAs? The kind of stuff that requires real CPU usage... I mean, I do run Microsoft Office 2010 under WIn 10 and 11... which is no load in the machine. But I rip CDs, DVDs, Handbrake and even an old version of Cubase SE in the latest i5/i7 machines.
As I noted, your usage of your old Mac is very limited. A word processor? We were doing that with an IMB XT back in '85 with Wordperfect! And we were building code in a 486DX4 in '94! (Win NT). Sure, byt 87 the original Macs had a nice word processor, but a tiny little screen. By the time Word came out in 3.2WG and we were using big 15 inch color CRTs you could see where the future was going.
Good luck running those applications in a 13 year old machine! Assuming, of course, you don't want those applications to take five hours to do a simple job. I mean, my older Pentiums running XT and Win7 did it, but they were... slow. And those were now 22 year old machines.
Mind you, I don't say that you're not happy, I'm happy for you, but don't extend your experience to those of us who need more horsepower in our usage of a PC of need to run more modern applications/hardware.
Does you Mac support USB3-C? Thunderbolt? ( Which, BTW, is obsolete in the Macs as of '25).
And oddly enough, the latest complaints about Windows is that it has started to do what Apple has been doing for years... shoving down upgrades down your throat and closing down their ecosystem.
To be brutally honest, I find most Apple users to be condescending, very condescending. Again, mind you, I don't defend Microsoft Windows... I think it's a PITA but I don't go around beating my chest telling the World how my choice of a PC ecosystem is the best. Because, you see, I develop software and firmware for a living... And I've been doing multimedia applications since the mid 90s.
Enjoy your closed ecosystem, but don't go around gloating that it's the best thing for the rest of the World. What works for you is not necessarily what works for others.
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My bottom line using Linux since 1995:
Complex stuff is often amazingly easy.
Simple stuff is sometimes extremely complex.
Yes i sometimes RIP records. But most of rip-ing is done on a even older mac mini
No i do not enjoy closed ecosystem. MACOS is one of the certified Unix98 systems, thus a have a full unix
machine with me all the time. No emulator, the real thing.
Reading this thread reminds me of the "what's the best C compiler?" flame wars from years ago. Some people obviously have strongly-held views but a 1,000 word essay about what you like and why you like it isn't likely to change anyone's mind. People are going to keep using whatever computer platform they prefer, and that's OK.
Maybe this thread has run its course. Time to unwatch.
Maybe this thread has run its course. Time to unwatch.
I hear that all the time... BUT I have a Unix Machine...
I know of only three guys who actually use their Mac as Unix machines. They are developers like me. They ripped out the whole GUI stuff and run them as UNIX.
But even then they admitted that they were also using Linux machines that did the same thing and are lots cheaper. They bought them because they liked how the machines look and they were flushed with money that fall when the stock paid us a lot of money.
For example, I have a Pentium Latitude Laptop, an Dell e6000 series with a Ubuntu boot stick.
....
Anyhow, the issue about this thread is how to keep your Windows machine from messing around with updates. Win 11 allows you to do this by modifying the registry, which is a PITA. Win 10 supposedly allowed you to do this in the System Configuration... BUT, sometimes it ignored it.
Fun times.
I know of only three guys who actually use their Mac as Unix machines. They are developers like me. They ripped out the whole GUI stuff and run them as UNIX.
But even then they admitted that they were also using Linux machines that did the same thing and are lots cheaper. They bought them because they liked how the machines look and they were flushed with money that fall when the stock paid us a lot of money.
For example, I have a Pentium Latitude Laptop, an Dell e6000 series with a Ubuntu boot stick.
....
Anyhow, the issue about this thread is how to keep your Windows machine from messing around with updates. Win 11 allows you to do this by modifying the registry, which is a PITA. Win 10 supposedly allowed you to do this in the System Configuration... BUT, sometimes it ignored it.
Fun times.
This thread was started by a user who had enough of Windows and MS dictation of how people should use their computer, and possibly being forced to buy a new one, leading him to Linux.
I got attached to DOS and eventually Windows because my DOS based 8086 PC worked far better than either of my Apple II clones or my TRS-80. I worked at Motorola for 41 years, moving around from job to job to learn new stuff, or just when I got bored with what I was doing. I worked at several different facilities over those years and for two years I worked in a small off campus think tank that shared a parking lot with the IBM credit union. The main plant where the PC was born was about half a mile down the road. I became friends with several IBM people as I was chasing my MSEE degree at a college on the other side of I-95 from the IBM plant. Did I have the latest version of any PC related software on the planet?
There are three popular OS choices that have been mentioned several times during this thread. All have their pro's and con's. Some have their fanatical supporters, but most of us just choose what works best for us. Being one who builds my own PC's to suite the task it will be used for leaves out the Apple ecosystem which I haven't used since the Apple II with the exception of an iPhone 10. Linux has come and gone several times but has always been an alternative choice. I do plan to try Mint again just to see what's changed since I last ran SUSE.
One quick glance at my Microsoft account shows 15 connected devices, all running Windows. Granted some of those are now in the hands of my daughter and her kids, and most of the others are "spare parts machines." I have 5 benchtop machines that are used at least once a week and 3 laptops that see some use.
The C compiler debate often comes down to which one was used where you work, and what machine it ran on, or in my case, where you went to college and what they mandated. Back then there were only two choices for DOS / Windows machines, Microsoft and Borland. I still have my old Borland Turbo C CD from College in the early 90's, but I doubt it will do much today.
Pretty much George ...
My PC is a tool. I can't have anyone or anything interfering with how it runs. I also can't afford to mothball other perfectly good equipment because some company decides not to support a driver for no other reason. I turn it on and fully expect it to run unless there is a failure. Increasingly stuff stops working out of the blue due to software. I have some equipment in the home that I can't use because a company decided not to support which it did earlier.
I have more issues with software / firmware these days than I ever had with hardware. The cost to society is enormous, and those responsible never pay the bill.
My PC is a tool. I can't have anyone or anything interfering with how it runs. I also can't afford to mothball other perfectly good equipment because some company decides not to support a driver for no other reason. I turn it on and fully expect it to run unless there is a failure. Increasingly stuff stops working out of the blue due to software. I have some equipment in the home that I can't use because a company decided not to support which it did earlier.
I have more issues with software / firmware these days than I ever had with hardware. The cost to society is enormous, and those responsible never pay the bill.
A possible solution is to buy the cheapest PC you can get away with and realize that you will have to buy a replacement in five years.
For example, for personal use I morphed into machines coming off corporate leases 20 years ago and then I moved to using the Dell Outlet or even -gulp!- eBay to buy much cheaper than "new" or made to order. Normally I pay under 500 bucks. Keep the machines for 6 to 7 years.... that seems to keep me in the curve. I went though 20 years of laptops and in '21 I went to the micro form factor with USB3-C
For work, well, I have my clients provide the machines.... they're usually top of the lined laptops ( got a 17" Dell i9 with Win10 ) so I don't worry about that.
For you, well, you need to look at how long you want to keep your machine up and running. It seems like Microsoft is now pushing people out of old platforms. As a developer who has had to support the product in the field I completely understand that, but as a customer I believe that once a machine is working it should not be messed with. The last thing I want to see on a Monday morning is a machine that won't boot because it downloaded an upgrade over the weekend. (Been there, done that, keep a screwdriver and a cloned back up drive nearby.. ALWAYS)...
I think, if you want long term consistency, your only option today would be a version of Linux. Just be aware that its support of software tools is questionable, but once you get it all working it is stable and won't shift under your feet (unless you want it to do so).
But, I think you know this.
Yes, it's a PITA. I'm not happy about this either. Having to junk "perfectly good" hardware is a PITA.... do you have any Firewire equipment? I do, useless now. It's not just the software, it's the hardware too. I think this is a fact of life with the field. It moves fast and the marketing "pendejos" making decisions have taken obsolesce to new, obnoxious level.
At least the replacement hardware is getting cheaper so... recall how much money we were paying for metrology equipment not so long ago?
Heck, be lucky you're not repairing consumer video stuff... baseband, RGB, DP, HDMI1, 2, no! 3... wait! DVI, it's 12.3 with ABS and TCS and AWD... and Copy Protection HDCP 3, ... yikes! And ARC... wait... eARC... is it blue or green? ATSC1, 2... oh! 3.0... next year it will be 3.25 with xyxRC and UltraHDCP.
Threw away four Centronix cables two years ago, in perfect shape! Chargers for Dell Latitude laptops...
However, as I've noted earlier, Win 11 Pro seems to be stable now.
And the key for Office 2010 Professional still works. ;-)
Perhaps the answer is to retire and play LPs with the Pearl 2... oh wait! Pearl 3... hmm.... Wayne! Stop it.... 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 😱😉
For example, for personal use I morphed into machines coming off corporate leases 20 years ago and then I moved to using the Dell Outlet or even -gulp!- eBay to buy much cheaper than "new" or made to order. Normally I pay under 500 bucks. Keep the machines for 6 to 7 years.... that seems to keep me in the curve. I went though 20 years of laptops and in '21 I went to the micro form factor with USB3-C
For work, well, I have my clients provide the machines.... they're usually top of the lined laptops ( got a 17" Dell i9 with Win10 ) so I don't worry about that.
For you, well, you need to look at how long you want to keep your machine up and running. It seems like Microsoft is now pushing people out of old platforms. As a developer who has had to support the product in the field I completely understand that, but as a customer I believe that once a machine is working it should not be messed with. The last thing I want to see on a Monday morning is a machine that won't boot because it downloaded an upgrade over the weekend. (Been there, done that, keep a screwdriver and a cloned back up drive nearby.. ALWAYS)...
I think, if you want long term consistency, your only option today would be a version of Linux. Just be aware that its support of software tools is questionable, but once you get it all working it is stable and won't shift under your feet (unless you want it to do so).
But, I think you know this.
Yes, it's a PITA. I'm not happy about this either. Having to junk "perfectly good" hardware is a PITA.... do you have any Firewire equipment? I do, useless now. It's not just the software, it's the hardware too. I think this is a fact of life with the field. It moves fast and the marketing "pendejos" making decisions have taken obsolesce to new, obnoxious level.
At least the replacement hardware is getting cheaper so... recall how much money we were paying for metrology equipment not so long ago?
Heck, be lucky you're not repairing consumer video stuff... baseband, RGB, DP, HDMI1, 2, no! 3... wait! DVI, it's 12.3 with ABS and TCS and AWD... and Copy Protection HDCP 3, ... yikes! And ARC... wait... eARC... is it blue or green? ATSC1, 2... oh! 3.0... next year it will be 3.25 with xyxRC and UltraHDCP.
Threw away four Centronix cables two years ago, in perfect shape! Chargers for Dell Latitude laptops...
However, as I've noted earlier, Win 11 Pro seems to be stable now.
And the key for Office 2010 Professional still works. ;-)
Perhaps the answer is to retire and play LPs with the Pearl 2... oh wait! Pearl 3... hmm.... Wayne! Stop it.... 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 😱😉
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Lol!
Hi Tony, I mean test equipment! I don't care about the boxes, I've started buying them off-lease decades ago. I used to build them. One early job was to build voicemail computers and rebuild same while recovering data on failed units.
Back then, OS/2 was the most solid platform and I loved voice mail servers running OS/2. I even got a slow-down program to allow the 8 bit cards to initialize as the box came up. The Linux boxes were super dependable also. The Windows boxes were playthings by comparison. But Microsoft has brainwashed IT departments to use "secure" windows. Yeah - right. These things did not connect to the internet to begin with. Then IT departments decided they knew how to program phone systems, what a circus that still is! Glad I am out of that industry now.
Nope, test equipment and industrial equipment is far more valuable than any computer. That stuff just works, until the OS doesn't support it anymore. I don't know of any motherboards that support 8 bit cards anymore. They were getting dear. So it isn't $1,000 for a computer (or less). The loss is the >$10,000 equipment and sometimes up into the plus $100,000 region. Like I said, that stuff often doesn't even connect to the internet.
Hi Tony, I mean test equipment! I don't care about the boxes, I've started buying them off-lease decades ago. I used to build them. One early job was to build voicemail computers and rebuild same while recovering data on failed units.
Back then, OS/2 was the most solid platform and I loved voice mail servers running OS/2. I even got a slow-down program to allow the 8 bit cards to initialize as the box came up. The Linux boxes were super dependable also. The Windows boxes were playthings by comparison. But Microsoft has brainwashed IT departments to use "secure" windows. Yeah - right. These things did not connect to the internet to begin with. Then IT departments decided they knew how to program phone systems, what a circus that still is! Glad I am out of that industry now.
Nope, test equipment and industrial equipment is far more valuable than any computer. That stuff just works, until the OS doesn't support it anymore. I don't know of any motherboards that support 8 bit cards anymore. They were getting dear. So it isn't $1,000 for a computer (or less). The loss is the >$10,000 equipment and sometimes up into the plus $100,000 region. Like I said, that stuff often doesn't even connect to the internet.
Well, that old equipment had very well designed front panels for a reason.... because we used them. I mean, I programmed them in ATE stations, but that was for production... but in the lab.. we twisted, pushed, turned knobs, switches... you can still do that today... no need for computers... like an old RF guy in the lab used to say all the time:
"Computers are a passing fad"
I just "updated" Tidal in my cell phone.
Don't ask.... all because I wanted to connect to a WiiM Ultra.... now it wiped out 440 albums that I had downloaded... and I had to restart the download.
Heck, the Update broke things... so the instructions said to clear the cache and re-install...... they got KIDS programming these things!
What you need is an HP-9000 machine... write the whole thing in HP-BASIC. I created whole suites, including the interpreter, for RF ATE stations. Imagine, they got them in a museum now.... I sure hope they don't grab me, give me an anti-static white robe, a wrist strap and put in front of one of these... note how it has the hard drive... woohoo... that was pricey...
( That was the upgraded Sony monitor... so this must be the HP-UX version... which did run WS-BASIC in a process ).
NOTE: I did get my old Samsung Note 8 to connect, but now it's gonna spend hours downloading to the SD card...
Computers ARE a passing fad!!!
"Computers are a passing fad"
I just "updated" Tidal in my cell phone.
Don't ask.... all because I wanted to connect to a WiiM Ultra.... now it wiped out 440 albums that I had downloaded... and I had to restart the download.
Heck, the Update broke things... so the instructions said to clear the cache and re-install...... they got KIDS programming these things!
What you need is an HP-9000 machine... write the whole thing in HP-BASIC. I created whole suites, including the interpreter, for RF ATE stations. Imagine, they got them in a museum now.... I sure hope they don't grab me, give me an anti-static white robe, a wrist strap and put in front of one of these... note how it has the hard drive... woohoo... that was pricey...
( That was the upgraded Sony monitor... so this must be the HP-UX version... which did run WS-BASIC in a process ).
NOTE: I did get my old Samsung Note 8 to connect, but now it's gonna spend hours downloading to the SD card...
Computers ARE a passing fad!!!
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I recognize that stuff.
I started with IBM 5150's (a pair). and on up through each improved box. DOS 2.0 and up through each release. I ran my shop using dBase and Symphony, then Filepro. I wrote the entire inventory, tracking, accounting, parts database and everything. It worked far better than anything we have today. Windows changed and I would have had to buy yet another release of Filepro, and it was expensive. I sold the shop about then. Each tech had a computer running WGFW and the front counter ran DOS. Everything just simply worked well.
I even had a couple luggables to talk to studio tape machines. Expensive! The Compaq was better than the IBM by far.
I started with IBM 5150's (a pair). and on up through each improved box. DOS 2.0 and up through each release. I ran my shop using dBase and Symphony, then Filepro. I wrote the entire inventory, tracking, accounting, parts database and everything. It worked far better than anything we have today. Windows changed and I would have had to buy yet another release of Filepro, and it was expensive. I sold the shop about then. Each tech had a computer running WGFW and the front counter ran DOS. Everything just simply worked well.
I even had a couple luggables to talk to studio tape machines. Expensive! The Compaq was better than the IBM by far.
In the 80's computer shops were popping up everywhere. They often failed just as fast. Some friends and I hit the liquidation auctions every weekend. We kept what we wanted, sold the rest at hamfests and computer shows. I got a bare case clone of the Compaq luggable that had an amber CRT screen and power supply at an auction one day. I found an 80386 motherboard that fit in it and overclocked tha6 16 MHz Intel 80386 chip to 40 MHz. It worked fine and I never looked inside. After about a year I opened it up to see that Intel logo in white paint had turned a rather pale shade of brown. At this point I glued a heat sink from a mobile radio to the top of the chip. It still wouldn't go any faster than 40 MHz. Somewhere in this time frame the lunch box sized LCD screened "portables" appeared so I sold the luggable and built a portable. I was going to school for my bachelors degree at age 38 at the time, so I was the only "kid" in the class that brought his own computer to the programming lab class.
Any old audiophiles here remember the DAK (Drew Alan Kaplan) catalog? I had several of his gadgets including one of the world's first graphic equalizers, but I bit on one of his early "laptop computers" too. Don't expect to have it on your lap for more than 5 minutes. It was heavy and got hot. Power came from 6 or 8 "D cell" sized NiCads. I think it was 80286 powered, but it was still better than the junk in the lab at school.
I was one of those old RF guys. I spent 41 years at Motorola, 10 of those in the cal lab. I watched the RF world go from knob twisting and paper Smith charts to Super Compact, then Agilent's MDS -> ADS, and shove an MX-300 radio into the slot, hit the go button and out comes a paper printout with all of the test results on it. The radio slot was connected to a rack of HP stuff powered by an HP9826 computer.
Did someone mention a Samsung Note? Hey, it still works!
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Got up this morning... both of my Optiplex PCs had shutdown.
I wonder why?
Took me some time to get them running again. I guess one of them has issues booting with the keyboard hooked up to the KVM. It just takes time.
Go figure.
The work laptop is fine. ( knock on wood ).
Samsung Note 8.... still working.... don't push it...
I wonder why?
Took me some time to get them running again. I guess one of them has issues booting with the keyboard hooked up to the KVM. It just takes time.
Go figure.
The work laptop is fine. ( knock on wood ).
Samsung Note 8.... still working.... don't push it...
I have been going rounds with a non cooperative PC that was mentioned in post #305. It takes a long time to boot up and has been getting worse. It now takes several minutes to even post. The first thing I do in this situation is to figure out what is not causing the problem by the process of elimination.....literally. At this point there are now only two choices. The CPU or the motherboard. As you can see, I am at the minimal configuration here. The power supply, video card and RAM have already been swapped. The boot SSD has been swapped and a fresh install of W10 has been applied to a new SSD through the USB port from the same stick that I used on another machine a couple of days ago. I'll swap the CPU chips with another AMD compatible motherboard tomorrow. I'm betting on the MB being sick since it's the same one that I dropped a screw onto while it was powered that produced sparks and shut down the power supply, but that was two years ago. Why did it take so long to die.
Yeah, that fancy fan looks like it's going to melt, but that's another symptom. Before the sparks it used to change colors continuously, controlled by a port on the MB. Now it just pulses red.
Yeah, that fancy fan looks like it's going to melt, but that's another symptom. Before the sparks it used to change colors continuously, controlled by a port on the MB. Now it just pulses red.
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Hi George,
Semiconductors can fail progressively as you know. The MB is sick, and as something ran hot, maybe it failed eventually.
I'm having continuous issues since my PC was rebooted a few days ago. Having to log into places again and "a new machine" is being reported as logging in to these sites now. Bloody M$! Even Google is complaining about a new machine, this after it "lost user preferences". I don't know what they did, but it was a classic Microsoft forced update of some kind. I am so sick of this.
Once I get migrated to Linux I'll leave all this nonsense behind me forever.
Semiconductors can fail progressively as you know. The MB is sick, and as something ran hot, maybe it failed eventually.
I'm having continuous issues since my PC was rebooted a few days ago. Having to log into places again and "a new machine" is being reported as logging in to these sites now. Bloody M$! Even Google is complaining about a new machine, this after it "lost user preferences". I don't know what they did, but it was a classic Microsoft forced update of some kind. I am so sick of this.
Once I get migrated to Linux I'll leave all this nonsense behind me forever.