I would like assistance building a Passively X-Overed 3 Way Speaker.....

Istoc

Member
2010-09-01 3:12 am
I am looking into building a TMW 3 way. To start things off I would like to ask the resident builders here what they believe might be closest in terms of audio output to a Boston Acoustic HS-450 Midrange and Tweeter in the available market. I love the sound of their drivers but wish to build a set from slightly higher quality components that will deliver solid 2.0 Stereo Production without having a separately powered Sub, thus the 3 way Woofer choice over conventional 2 way.

I have experience with cabinet building so with workable numbers or dimensions I can figure out enclosures. However I have never soldered a damn thing in my life...Sad I know but it just hasn't come into play. Thus I would have to practice that before attempting to make a X-Over, I've done a great bit of reading on X-Overs so I understand some of the basics but things like using Ohm Resistors etc is a bit above me still. So if you go into that please elaborate on why they are used etc.

Thanks in advance for Replies guys,

Cristian
 

kbgl

Member
2010-04-03 1:25 pm
I am looking into building a TMW 3 way. To start things off I would like to ask the resident builders here what they believe might be closest in terms of audio output to a Boston Acoustic HS-450 Midrange and Tweeter in the available market. I love the sound of their drivers but wish to build a set from slightly higher quality components that will deliver solid 2.0 Stereo Production without having a separately powered Sub, thus the 3 way Woofer choice over conventional 2 way.

I have experience with cabinet building so with workable numbers or dimensions I can figure out enclosures. However I have never soldered a damn thing in my life...Sad I know but it just hasn't come into play. Thus I would have to practice that before attempting to make a X-Over, I've done a great bit of reading on X-Overs so I understand some of the basics but things like using Ohm Resistors etc is a bit above me still. So if you go into that please elaborate on why they are used etc.

Thanks in advance for Replies guys,

Cristian

Maybe someone can post some links to more x-over fundamentals for you. Picking drivers is the fun part of a new project, but you have to understand why you might pick one driver over another. It takes some experience, or guidance to get good combinations on the cheap. You can always spend more, and buy very versatile drivers. Some drivers are simply a safe bet. The x-over will make or break the design. Without some serious learning, you will be in the dark. With limited knowledge, you could still make a speaker that will work, but the results are likely to be relatively poor compared to what the speaker could sound like with a good x-over. But sometimes you can get lucky. I know I have even recently.
 
Wanting to build a speaker that sounds like a commercial one really requires using the same drivers, cabinet and crossover design; perhaps you might try rethinking your goals. What type of sound are you really looking for? Do you have a particular budget? Are you willing to build a design or kit that is already available?

You might want to look into something like this:

Zaph|Audio - ZDT3.5

There are lots of 3-way designs on these sites also:

www.humblehomemadehifi.com and

www.troelsgravesen.dk

Also look at RJB Audio Projects

There are a lot more resources but these are good places to start.
 

tinitus

diyAudio Moderator R.I.P.
2005-11-24 1:47 am
Maybe someone can post some links to more x-over fundamentals for you.

pointless :eek:

you really should look at designs made by experts...real experts

alone that it might not be easy to find tells how difficult it is
without experience a 3way is impossible
a 2way or 2.5way could be an option
but still not easy
expect years of work
learning about measurements, etc

that is if you expect good quality
if you only want something that makes some kind of noise, anyone can do that
but ofcourse its your decision

but even if your goal is to learn, then you should still start with a proven design
to learn, and to have a good reference speaker to compete with
and the best reference speaker might well be 2way
and the one to beat

sorry if it sounded rough ;)
 

kbgl

Member
2010-04-03 1:25 pm
pointless :eek:

you really should look at designs made by experts...real experts

alone that it might not be easy to find tells how difficult it is
without experience a 3way is impossible
a 2way or 2.5way could be an option
but still not easy
expect years of work
learning about measurements, etc

that is if you expect good quality
if you only want something that makes some kind of noise, anyone can do that
but ofcourse its your decision

but even if your goal is to learn, then you should still start with a proven design
to learn, and to have a good reference speaker to compete with
and the best reference speaker might well be 2way
and the one to beat

sorry if it sounded rough ;)

Don't automatically underestimate someones abilities. What takes you years to learn, might only take someone else a few weeks. I built my first 3-way almost 30 years ago. I didn't measure anything. It had outstanding bass, and sounded great with the rock music I listened to at the time. Was it flat? Probably not. Did it distort the music? No, I don't think so.
 

MJL21193

Disabled Account
2007-03-10 1:20 am
Don't automatically underestimate someones abilities. What takes you years to learn, might only take someone else a few weeks.

:up:
Every time a new thread opens like this you get the same comments over and over: 'Don't build that, build this one designed by this 'expert' or that 'expert'. If those 'experts' were polled, I'll bet not one of them started building their first speakers from someone else's 'expert' plan.
 

tinitus

diyAudio Moderator R.I.P.
2005-11-24 1:47 am
Don't automatically underestimate someones abilities.

no, ofcourse not

but I think its only fair to note the kind of difficulties he is facing

what is meant by assistance ?
I would like to know ?

I would like assistance building a Passively X-Overed 3 Way Speaker.....

links ? guiding ? expectations ?

how many designs have we actually seen completed ?
its fun to design a speaker, absolutely
but its not fun to see the money wasted

dreams are good, illusions are not

yesterday I heard a funny saying, in German
it sounded like

If you know nothing, you believe anything

so, it all start with knowledge ;)
 

tinitus

diyAudio Moderator R.I.P.
2005-11-24 1:47 am
If those 'experts' were polled, I'll bet not one of them started building their first speakers from someone else's 'expert' plan.

MJL, now I think you underestimate them "experts"
and Im sure you also worked hard to learn

but I basicly also aggree with you
we should not scare members from building, absolutely not
and its boring
but also a question about responsibility
is there a sensible balance ?

my point is
is it to "just" build himself a very nice speaker, to have and listen to
a one time event


or is it to learn how to
and build more speakers in the future
 

MJL21193

Disabled Account
2007-03-10 1:20 am
MJL, now I think you underestimate them "experts"
and Im sure you also worked hard to learn

but I basicly also aggree with you
we should not scare members from building, absolutely not

those experts
they didnt ask how to
they just started
man, when I think of the many crappy speakers I have had
great fun, but the dissapointment was worse

my point is
is it to "just" build himself a very nice speaker, to have and listen to
a one time event

or is it to learn how to
and build more speakers in the future

thats the real important question

Quoting a moving target again, I see. :D Post it and leave it, man!

I generally don't underestimate anyone, but I am in touch with the reality of things - guys who get good at this building and designing speakers thing had to start somewhere. 9 times out of 10 I'll bet (and win) that was with a couple of cheap speakers jammed in a box, just to see how it sounds.
If you have experienced "disappointment" and found this to be a setback, maybe you should play it safe and not build speakers.
 
I understand some of the basics but things like using Ohm Resistors etc is a bit above me still. So if you go into that please elaborate on why they are used etc.

Resistors, along with capacitors and inductors, are used to build filters. Those filters are used to split incoming sound frequencies into frequency bands dedicated to speaker driver that reproduces them best (sub-woofer, woofer, tweeter).

Audio crossover - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you want to design one yourself, it will take a lot of learning and work, but end effect will be very rewarding. I don't want to tell you what to do (design or use existing design), but I think you should read this 1st, so you are fully aware of the scope of work that will be required. https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy-faqs-provendesigns
 

Istoc

Member
2010-09-01 3:12 am
I think I can clear some of this up. On reference to what knowledge I have gained on X-Overs I got a great deal of my knowledge from Blu-Ray.com in their DIY Speaker section, I spoke at length about them with Big Daddy, a Forum Moderator and speaker modifier/builder. He did a successful folded horn design that looks great.

Here are some of the links to reference the reading I've done.
Blu-ray Forum - View Single Post - DIY Speaker Building, Repairing, & Upgrading

I believe I wish to gain knowledge relevant to assisting myself and my friends build theirs. The set I've built already don't sound bad, as Dave(This Forum) has said I'm definitely not getting the most out of them I could, But I want to use a different set of speakers and actually build my X-Over on this next setup.

Mostly I'm looking for guidance. I don't want to replicate a commercial speaker, I was only giving an idea of what kind of speaker I had enjoyed thus far. I would prefer to build a custom Enclosure, I already started developing the concept which I will speak about in a minute simple curiousity, but as long as the performance of the pre-designed was up to my expectations I would have no issues. I do have some restrictions on budgeting but I can make it a prolonged purchasing regiment to augment the cost, Instead of building it all at once build it in stages.

The concept for those curious to what I was thinking was to Move the mounting of the speakers themselves an inch off the face of the speaker, Say like stacking material the size of the mounting plate sealing it and using it to remove them from the overly wide area of the speaker(The main front of it.) I'll design a quick concept in Paint, Yes Paint, to show what I mean.

I'm trying to cover everyones questions but it's a touch difficult to do with this Quick Reply Box. So who did I miss?
 

Istoc

Member
2010-09-01 3:12 am
Concept Image.
 

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I'm replying using the quick reply Box ...:)
Generally ,speakers should be mounted flush . In your design ,you could have the drivers
and their 'emission centers' vertically aligned ,on the same axis . Otherwise (generally ,because it can be reworked by the Xover ) the arrival time to your ears will be delayed by those drivers(reproducing those frequencies) who are receded .
The acoustical wave should see no obstacle ,so even a screw pin is a diffractional element . You can use felt around ...
 

Istoc

Member
2010-09-01 3:12 am
Also I wouldn't be imposed to using 2 of the three drivers I'm currently using and creating a new set of enclosures. The only one I'm sure I want to replace is my Fostex FT17 Super Tweeter. I don't like its sound, I want to move to a softer less forward tweeter, mostly a Soft Dome.