Two words "peer review". When I first read Hawksfords paper, something didnt sit right with me. It took a day to figure out what. Ive been working in recording studios for 20 years and never heard of this paper! I remember going to an AES convetion in 91 and going to a panel discusion on "cables". On one side of the panel were EE Phd's on the other HiFi reviewers and Monster cable marketers. Not a mention of this paper. Had no one heard of such a earh shaking finding or did they know it was ** and the Phd's could prove it wrong.
Well, plus the consideration that measuring gear is still not up to the level of 2 ears + a brain -- that has been my belief for a long time but it was really driven home by Floyd Toole's latest book.
dave
I did not realize that Passion was a recording engineer. My mistake 🙂 Feel free to not read my posts. Or do you not have a choice to not read what you dislike?
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You might also want to check out some of Frank's old posts too 🙂
It brought quite a chuckle you back & forth with him.
dave
Thanks Dave I will do that. Keep up the good work on the new speakers also. I am envious of what you and Scott do for all of us!
Yes this is correct. this is what the graph is showing
(Vin -Vout)/Vin
eg. Vin=1v so if vout1=.999, and the other cable Vout2=.99999 there is about 1 milivolt difference in the delivered signal level, you get error voltages of .001 and .00001 or -30db and -50db, a 20db diff.
Now if Vout1=.999999 and Vout2=.9999999999 the diference is only about 1microvolt now, but in db; the first is -60db the 2nd is -100db so although the diference in signal is smaller the db figures make it look larger. Thats why ask for a graph with voltages not db.
As for a general agreement, only with the people that understand the above.
Sorry I wasnt clear, I was refering to your post about the customer who came in to the store and was wondering why his "exact" system at home sounded different. You said it was the cables. I say it was the room,speaker placement,humidity etc. Did he buy some expensive cables?
In some respects I'd say yes and in some I'd say no. I think we can measure some things with a recording chain that are way beyond what we can perceive and also our ears and brain can interpret things and hear them in a totally different manner which is way beyond what we can directly capture/measure.
It's figuring out where these things overlap and what is imperative to be present on the recording/testing end in order to emulate what is going on with normal hearing that is key to understanding/interpreting measurements.
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Yes this is a decent control to save you from wasting your time. Make sure there is an actual difference with an inverse cancellation test and then move on to see if that difference is easily perceivable. I find that I can differentiate recordings that are very similar with the aid of ABing but in some of the examples the differences are just boring and negligible. A difference of 1dB in the uppermids isn't going to make much of a difference over time in real listening imo but you can detect it with ABing.
Spectral annalysis can give you a great visual interpretation of the differences and you could also use something like HolmImpulse to compare the different files.
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WOW, WRONG. If Vin=1uv than Vout=.999999uv (or nanovolts for that matter) Go learn your grade school math.
He bought all of his equipment from us and yes he did buy cables, but not until he took them home to demo them in his system. I rarely if ever sold $500.00 plus cabling to anyone without first allowing them to demo them.
We did not twist anyone's arms to purchase ANYTHING. That is not only unprofessional, most people liken it to used car salesmen. We were in the business of representing the finest and did so with dignity and respect for all customers.
Well who actually twists someones arm in a sale? I'd say it's more that you can box them in with faulty logic until they think that without the 500 dollar cable they are not getting the optimal playback they could.
Are you calling me a liar! That my friend is not OK with me! I realize that it may not enter into your limited thinking that people have their own thoughts and ideas about what they may what or not want from their systems. You on the other hand would prefer to dictate to them what they should consider good or bad. Make your point with some degree of honor. Or is that beyond your thinking process when you can not think of a better argument!
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No, but when he asked why it sounds different, instead of telling him it was probably the different room (which it probably was), you said it was the cables. And even if it wasnt concious, you were trying to sell him cables. Thats what salesmen do.
No you honestly believe in all this hocus pocus stuff so we can not fault you.
You have spent 20 Years in audio sales, zero in audio science. There is simply no way for you not to believe in what you believe. Its like asking a Preacher if he doesnt believe in God. 😉
Nah it's just this is the method I see "good salesmen" use. That is all I am saying. And I am not dictating to anyone what is good or bad where do you get off? I am trying to find answers and that is all.
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