Oh FFS, so it's just cables that are attached to microphones, that are microphonic ?
I gave an example where a cable that is attached to a cartridge, can
be microphonic. So, this may be related then ?
Prove to me that a speaker cable that is not attached to a microphone is microphonic. I ask, how is the mechanical energy
converted to electrical energy, and please don't tell me it's the triboelectric charge that causes it, because I don't hear anything audible in the loudspeaker when I rub my speaker cables with cotton, wool, plastic, you name it ;-)
This is a distraction that all of us could do without, but you have to admit, there is some shite talked about interconnects and cables.
We all know how good a Radio 3 analogue broadcast could sound using RF transmitters, we know that musical frequencies can make it though bad weather hundered of miles away and still sound pretty good, but we seem unable to agree that our 1 meter of interconnects and speaker cable are up to the job.
mwaters10 said:
"When an electric charge is generated by friction between the screen of a cable and insulation(triboelectric effect)a voltage is created between the signal and return conductors,that is in addition to the music signal.That voltage-since not part of the music signal-it is a noise.That noise is the microphonic effect generated by the cable.Friction between the screen and the insulation can be caused in many ways ,like vibration,moving the cables,or when audio-kraut gets exited
How significant is the electric charge generated by friction between the screen of a cable and insulation as a result of normal playback in a typical audio system ?
And where did you copy and paste that from ?
And did you ever hear this electric charge generated by this friction ?
Experiment number 2, go move your speaker cables, shake them violently if you wish. Hear anything ?
Hilarious ...
And where did you copy and paste that from ?
And did you ever hear this electric charge generated by this friction ?
Experiment number 2, go move your speaker cables, shake them violently if you wish. Hear anything ?
Hilarious ...
mwaters10 said:
Good point, I didn't read past the blanket cable statements to the speaker specific at the end. Interconnects are also microphonic. Disconnect the pre-amp end and tap the jacket. Speaker cables would be as well. The level at which these effects manifest themselves depends on the loads at either end and operating level of course. So your blanket 'NONONONONO' is wrongwrongwrongwrongwrong, or at best misleading.
Re: the mechanism, the capacitance between conductors is being modulated by the vibration?
mwaters10 said:
From a cable manufacturer's literature.Is this your problem now?I don't see any problem to learn from anyone.I just couldn't wake up my school teacher to remind me of the theory.You see here it is 5.30 in the morning.Why don't you move your speakers in another room and then listen to your turntable.What you don't hear any more is problems caused from feedback.Now switch off your turntable,move your speakers,and shake them violently if you wish.Hear anything?
I know what feedback is, I hope you're not going to suggest that I should enclose my cables in sound proof enclosures ?
What is the the audio enthusiast supposed to do ? The usual answer for the audio industry is that we must buy more expensive cables that have some marketing BS about improved microphonics ..
The reality is that no-one has ever proved that interconnects are microphonic to any extent that it affects the sound quality they hear.
You can't prove it, all you can do is copy and paste some bumf about microphone cables. It's embarassing.
Clearly it doesn't matter, that you advocate something and then lose interest when questioned about it.
mwaters10 said:
Was there a point to the questions? They read as simple and meaningless Internet challenges with little bearing on the existence of cable microphonics. For argument's sake let's say the capacitance is non-linear. Then what?
My Dad used to supervise for General Electric : If he had a dollar for everytime one of his techs worked on a fridge and he got a customer call afterwards saying the fridge was noisy he'd have retired rich. Once people forked out some coin they started to notice the fridge ...they actually listened for it : and guess what ? : what they had always ignored , they all of a sudden noticed : they heard their fridge ....ever record in a normal room and hear all of the background noise on playback? : psycho-acoustics is a good topic ; and aptly named : because IMHO much of it exists in peoples heads ........ there will always be snake oil : and people with little enough confidence in themselves to buy it . I remember when common knowledge was that vinyl was dead because it was a junk source .......and everybody believed it : I wonder what history will record as the wisdom of $1000 speaker cables.
Why all this empty talk about microphonie in cables? Do your own experiment: use the most sensitive input - the MC of your preamp, crank the ******* amp up to the hilt and use a hammer to tap on your cable? Hit forcefully without damaging - hear anything?
I did the test - several times, with different cables, but I had the cable terminated at both ends.
You know what - I couldn't hear a thing at 250W cranked up to a speaker at about 91dB/Watt efficiency and a phono preamp at about 65db amplification. Nada, zilch, zip, nix, nichts.
Oh yes - an open circuit like the unterminated input at an interconnect to a preamp is very sensitive - you just have to get close with your hand at the end of an mc cartridge input cable to demonstrate that - what has that to do with triboelectricity?
You do not even have to touch the cable ends.
And then again - just try to bend and pinch the cable away from the solder connection - you hear it?.......no....neither can I.
Usually - microphonie in my experience indicates nothing but bad solder connections.
Imagine a cable on a stage with amps at several thousand watts - the feedback would be disastrous if someone stepped on a cable...
I did the test - several times, with different cables, but I had the cable terminated at both ends.
You know what - I couldn't hear a thing at 250W cranked up to a speaker at about 91dB/Watt efficiency and a phono preamp at about 65db amplification. Nada, zilch, zip, nix, nichts.
Oh yes - an open circuit like the unterminated input at an interconnect to a preamp is very sensitive - you just have to get close with your hand at the end of an mc cartridge input cable to demonstrate that - what has that to do with triboelectricity?
You do not even have to touch the cable ends.
And then again - just try to bend and pinch the cable away from the solder connection - you hear it?.......no....neither can I.
Usually - microphonie in my experience indicates nothing but bad solder connections.
Imagine a cable on a stage with amps at several thousand watts - the feedback would be disastrous if someone stepped on a cable...
Funny, I did the same thing with a volume pot. DC bias on the pot to (hopefully) generate some noise. Banged it, hit it with a hammer, etc. Nothing, nothing at all. Input was mic level.
Not sure I follow the point here. Microphonics is a characteristic of cables (unfortunately being forced to quote myself):
The degree to which it matters, if at all, depends on the situation. Are you calling Belden, Delco, Alpha and the other score of mainstream manufacturers who sell cable designed to minimize the effect charlatans?
The degree to which it matters, if at all, depends on the situation. Are you calling Belden, Delco, Alpha and the other score of mainstream manufacturers who sell cable designed to minimize the effect charlatans?
That's because you did not hit the CYROGENICALLY treated MICRO-DIODES hard enough 
I swear when moving my power cable 0.3m off the ground the sound changes for the better. Or is it my head moving to different location? Can't be. 😀
I swear when moving my power cable 0.3m off the ground the sound changes for the better. Or is it my head moving to different location? Can't be. 😀
people here cables
Noway in the world can a person hear a cable . Lets all be sensible and get onto another subject as due to ignorance the present discussion can make bad enemys as i have seen countless times . Alan
Noway in the world can a person hear a cable . Lets all be sensible and get onto another subject as due to ignorance the present discussion can make bad enemys as i have seen countless times . Alan
I have had this experience with silver-teflon interconnects that I was using with an electronic crossover. Bad triboelectric-induced microphony. Drove me crazy on the test bench since I assumed that the effect was coming from the circuit board or the ICs or some component on there. I rebuilt, resoldered, changed parts, no effect. I ended up scrapping the crossover. Then a year or two later, I needed to use those interconnects in my system for some reason (can't remember why). I thought things sounded odd, then when I brushed the interconnects while checking connections, I could clearly hear it on my speakers. Tried it again. Yup, the interconnects were superb vibration transducers.
Is this typical? Probably not; a pair of plain Radio Shack interconnects that I substituted worked just fine without any noise. But I wouldn't make any sweeping statements like this one, and I would not be at all surprised if some exotic, expensive, hand-built, Teflon-silver deal showed a similar problem. That's one reason I use cheap, machine-made cables with non-exotic materials and concentrate my efforts elsewhere.
Hey SY,
They were questions, not statements, and should be read in context.
The questions were deisgned to get others who are advocating this stuff to back it up with some evidence that this problem actually exists
in interconnects and speaker cables.
I like others, cannot hear or measure any audible effect introduced by microphony in cables, so yes I also would spend my money where it matters. The issue of accoustic feedback can be a problem in audio playback, but it is not a problem in audio cables. This is why I said NO NO NONONONONO
So I agree, if you don't hear the effect, then the cause is not worth investigating, yet alone eliminating.
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