Seriously who cares about cable and how much they cost?? its all bull wether you like it or not... start by listening to music itself and your room etc etc...wake up and smell the roses.. stop wasting your time here and pay attention to your system. If you cant be arsed to take my advice then im laughing at you! Plus most use **** amps anyway that includes tripath and all that crap.
There are buckets of cash (less so now, but not insignificant) in telecom audio, however, understandably, it's not the same.
Telecom audio is low enough in grade that outcomes are quantifiable. High end audio, pfft. Have two people even agreed in this thread?
If were just for a moment pretending that Toole & Olive were correct with their findings about the groupwise difference between sighted and blind listening tests, then we have to conclude that the most important factors for listeners are to learn to listen and to control (as far as possible) the bias influence.
Obviously a real difference could be swamped out by external factors as rating _and_ ranking of loudspeakers could be changed.
Normally only two possibilities exist; restrict the choice of products with a set of standards that (at minimum) all have to fullfill or let a varity exists and educate the customers to make the right choice.
In the audio field there is a lack of real science and unfortunately even bad examples got published. Thats why i am so unhappy with the Meyer/Moran; they could be right with their results, but with this sort of documentation/description, obvious contradiction to earlier work from others without any discussion about the reasons, some statistically surprising results of subgroups that got not addressed, it should really not pass a review board.
So, even if there is "hocus pocus" and "bad science", if customers are able to listen and make correct decisions based on that, it wouldn´t matter.
@ auplater,
as posted before- one could learn a lot about stereotype thinking in this thread, so thank you for this perfect example.
Wishes
I see it differently. You yourself said that objective data would only be forthcoming if it could be translated in more sales and more money, I agree.
I think that any cable manufacturer who comes up with a scientific sound test that clearly shows that his cables are audible better than others, will immediately see more sales. People will love to by cables on a scientific reasoning! That is why I ask: why doesn't any cable manufacturer invest the money (assuming there IS an audible difference of course).
My theory is that most cable manufacturers are happy with the status quo: using well known and well proven marketing techniques they can generate lost of sales without much trouble, and they are not looking for a war amongst them that will undoubtedly leave some victims.
jd
People are in fact buying cables on a scientific reasoning(see non-audiophool cable sales,or cheap cable sales
)....................As for your theory,do you know anyone who is not happy making much money without much trouble ? Not that I agree with your theory 100% but that is reality. Send me my cheque at home and I will never complain
My theory is that such marketing is purely forced by "audio press".They are the ones to make you a star,or bury you as a manufacturer.Very strictly speaking,even cable manufacturers have to live.
You sir, are an opinionated shill, and should not be allowed any point or placement of moderation of this forum, in any way, shape, or form.
You should be removed from your position of moderation, permanently. You have violated the rules of moderation and neutrality, in many ways (with so many posts -it is nearly incalculable) over the years; most of them subtle and devious.
When your entire economic, scholastic, and corporate background -in all ways- involves the areas of research, exploration, and science that anyone attempting to explore the nature of 'complex electromagnetism at the molecular interactive levels' would begin to encounter and hence begin to unravel....when this is the only area of speculative work on this forum that you attack, I'd say there is ample evidence of an ulterior motive and shilling for your interests. Interests that are hidden, for the larger part, from the members of this forum, as those involvements and interests are not known by them.
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In my opninion only standardization would have the power to change things for the better.
Educate people? Why would anyone want to do this when it is so much easier and above all profitable to make people believe that expensive cables and other voodoo stuff make a significant difference?
By the way, why are "good sounding" cable always expensive? Expensive = good, because pricing is always based on the real value of a product? Get real!
Right.Get an atheist for example to "educate" a believer
.....because the believer cannot "prove" his faith and an atheist cannot prove there is no God.............Yes,someone has to get real
Right.Get an atheist for example to "educate" a believer
Yes,someone has to get real
As I said before, educating believers is just a waste of time. I was talking about people that are still open minded. I heared a couple of them get born every day.
Did you find the post we were talking about yesterday? You can also send me the documentation of your listening test setup and the results via email.
Put it right and we are agreed.
When an atheist tries to educate a believer(or vice versa),yes that is almost a total waste of time
Open mindness has different meaning for an atheist or a believer.Wouldn't be a further waste of time for you to read about our test set up and results? Try to find SY's post about "his protocol".No difference bar the one I've already told you.
Let's find out! If you don't provide any more details on what and how you tested I simply can't believe your claim "I don't believe cables make a difference.I know."
Let's find out! If you don't provide any more details on what and how you tested I simply can't believe your claim "I don't believe cables make a difference.I know."
You won't be the first,and you won't be the last
I will e-mail the details to you.Just give me a little time as I run after my mother these days due to a health problem of her's,and lots of things in my "free time"
I have to write a few things down for you because my notes of the test are in Greek.Good salesman! Takes care of his customers. I suspect he doesn't call on the plants I have visited!
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Jan,
Would you care to guess how many cable manufacturer's contacted me after I published an article on how to test cables and connectors?
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