Great thanks xrk971, effort you put into present both drivers a fair equal environment appreciated. For me looks compared they both have some give/take ups/downs, though admit some of the specs i'm not full aware how will make its signature in real world performance. EQ or not both look good, TC9FC less cost makes it a greater value. If lets say their sound signature quality on and off axis is same then given its better Xmax and LF extension think RS100-4 makes it first choice run as single point full ranger scenario, and TC9FD given it's low cost a first choice in a FAST scenario.
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Byrtt,
I am curious to try the RS100's in a 0.4x Karlsonator. I think you are right - for single point driver with deeper bass extension, the RS100 will be a better choice. For FAST applications where cone excursion is limited by high pass, TC9FD is fine. I will put the RS100's into the 2-way HyperFAST to hear how they sound. I believe the sound signature of an aluminum cone is different though compared to paper. Haven't had much time to listen to music yet.
Thanks again for the great set of drivers. They really are very nice looking and have to be seen to be appreciated. A great value at $29 ea.
I am curious to try the RS100's in a 0.4x Karlsonator. I think you are right - for single point driver with deeper bass extension, the RS100 will be a better choice. For FAST applications where cone excursion is limited by high pass, TC9FD is fine. I will put the RS100's into the 2-way HyperFAST to hear how they sound. I believe the sound signature of an aluminum cone is different though compared to paper. Haven't had much time to listen to music yet.
Thanks again for the great set of drivers. They really are very nice looking and have to be seen to be appreciated. A great value at $29 ea.
Thanks for posting. They do seem like they are both good drivers, and more similar than I would have expected.
It's interesting that the impulse response for the Dayton has less overshoot but somewhat more ringing than the Vifa. The Dayton has slightly lower distortion in the telephone band, but really they are pretty close. Vifa looks on paper to be smoother in the top octave.
It's interesting that the impulse response for the Dayton has less overshoot but somewhat more ringing than the Vifa. The Dayton has slightly lower distortion in the telephone band, but really they are pretty close. Vifa looks on paper to be smoother in the top octave.
xrk971, year i forgot the cone material difference just based opinion on specs measured at microphone.
If more design to come regarding RS100 as RS100's in a 0.4x Karlsonator gives a 🙂.
If more design to come regarding RS100 as RS100's in a 0.4x Karlsonator gives a 🙂.
I've stumbled across this hypercube thread and found it pretty interesting...
Can we just throw a fullrange driver in a sealed hypercube? I've read the FAST 2 way thread going on but rather than deal with a crosssover has anyone had any success just putting a fulrange driver in a hypercube sans crossover?
Just thinking out loud but if I take a say a 4" mark audio driver (CR70 or something) and put it in a hypercube what happens? The hypercube is sealed and the volume is pretty large. What if it scales up to a 8" driver? With an 8" driver the internal volume is almost 1000 cubic inches or 16L. That would be quite a sight.
Can we just throw a fullrange driver in a sealed hypercube? I've read the FAST 2 way thread going on but rather than deal with a crosssover has anyone had any success just putting a fulrange driver in a hypercube sans crossover?
Just thinking out loud but if I take a say a 4" mark audio driver (CR70 or something) and put it in a hypercube what happens? The hypercube is sealed and the volume is pretty large. What if it scales up to a 8" driver? With an 8" driver the internal volume is almost 1000 cubic inches or 16L. That would be quite a sight.
This thread is about a full range driver in a Hypercube. I guess you have not read the first few posts.
Be gentle I don't know much about building speakers but I like weird shapes. Ran across this thread and decided to build some of these. Any suggestions on a driver or calculating the internal volume to make this work best? I can scale the hypercube as needed for volume down to a certain point where the driver side is too small to hold the driver. See attachment. It's a hypercube about 13" tall with the driver face cut out for a Mark Audio 8" Alpair 12P driver I found online. Internal volume is 987 in^3, not subtracting anything for the driver. I think 3/4" MDF is a good starting material.
Attachments
mattsmith, attach picture where response simulated choosing same sealed box alignment Qtc around 0,7 as gmad had great results for with his driver. In the picture look the inside volume needed for an empty box, subtract ~0,7-1,4 liters because to raise sound quality it's normal to put some dampening material inside and that adds virtual volume seen from the driver. A sealed box don't go very low in frequency without room modes, expect some strategic placement and or some EQ as used by gmad to raise performance. Also attach a pdf document with good reading about rules and help for speaker building, with that you can find free tools to simulate as i did, this combined your Solidworks tool/skills get you long down the road. Hope was gentle enough 🙂.
Attachments
I bought 2 of these today: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...audio-chr-70-brushed-metal-cone-4-full-range/
I didn't want to spend more on 8" speakers and these seem to be used in other sealed enclosures unlike what I was finding for the 12P. So I now need to figure out how to scale down for these drivers. And then I can have something to listen to.
And thanks BYRTT. That pdf is way past what I know. But I'll try to learn.
I didn't want to spend more on 8" speakers and these seem to be used in other sealed enclosures unlike what I was finding for the 12P. So I now need to figure out how to scale down for these drivers. And then I can have something to listen to.
And thanks BYRTT. That pdf is way past what I know. But I'll try to learn.
Those are good drivers - they actually have similar parameters compared to RS100-4 and look like they have a 13kHz peak that will look like ringing that will show up in the impulse response. Typical for an aluminum cone driver. This driver has a pretty wide bezel - you may need a 5in side square to fit. So volume is 3.75 liters Hypercube.
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Is that a good volume for that speaker? I can build the shape any size. I might go with 1/2" MDF instead for this smaller Hypercube and surface mount the driver so that there is enough thickness to attach it well. The rest of this is a bit mysterious to me still.
This is probably a dumb and complicated question... Is there a somewhat straightforward way to determine the correct volume of a sealed enclosure for a particular speaker? Also I looked all over the datasheet for that driver, I can't figure out where your comment about a 13kHz peak comes from. But I'm trying over here!
Thanks for your response
Make the volume about the same as the Vas for a sealed box that can reach as deep as possible. Look at freq response curve. There is a 5 or 7dB peak at 13khz due to cone breakup. You can make volume smaller but it won't be able to go as deep without more EQ.
Hi, appropriate enclosure size can be calculated with simple software such as this:
http://image.ajdesigner.com/vc/ajsealed.exe
Determining the hypercube enclosure measurements based on volume can be done here:
Calc from volume
It looks like with your 4" drivers, correct internal volume with a hypercube enclosure (assuming 12mm thickness) would be realized with a square baffle side length of 7.19". I have heard you can go smaller with this shape with less ill effects, but I have no personal experience with testing that claim.
mattsmith,
A square baffle length of about 6 - 6.25" with 9mm material is probably good. You would be able to flush mount the driver and if stuffing were used, the smaller volume would be appropriate anyway.
A square baffle length of about 6 - 6.25" with 9mm material is probably good. You would be able to flush mount the driver and if stuffing were used, the smaller volume would be appropriate anyway.
So for the drivers I have on the way:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...audio-chr-70-brushed-metal-cone-4-full-range/
I used the program GMAD linked to, but I wasn't sure how to get Qtc. I read that
.707 was "optimal" but changing it around slightly had quite an effect on the volume. So I'm not sure I'm doing that part right. With Qtc=.707 I got 7.9 liters for sealed volume. Which seems reasonable. And using Matthew Kennedy's calculator and using 1/2" MDF I got the dimensions in the second attachment.
I'm just going to build a set with these dimensions. Thanks everybody
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...audio-chr-70-brushed-metal-cone-4-full-range/
I used the program GMAD linked to, but I wasn't sure how to get Qtc. I read that
.707 was "optimal" but changing it around slightly had quite an effect on the volume. So I'm not sure I'm doing that part right. With Qtc=.707 I got 7.9 liters for sealed volume. Which seems reasonable. And using Matthew Kennedy's calculator and using 1/2" MDF I got the dimensions in the second attachment.
I'm just going to build a set with these dimensions. Thanks everybody
Attachments
Nice! Thanks for sharing. I take it you did the cutting yourself? Looks good so far. Keep us posted...
Yes, all cuts by me. Driver hole was a 4" hole saw cut. The rest of the angles aren't too bad. But I did make a lot of backwards and wrong way cuts. In the end there are only 3 different shaped pieces.
They echo pleasingly if I put my face in the open hole and hum. 🙂 Can't tell you much else yet.
The drivers are burning in as I type. I'll glue the rest up this evening and be able to mount and listen tomorrow night. Final finish to come later. I'm thinking something subtle, like orange.
Binding posts for 1/2" thick material seem to be somewhat hard to find for a reasonable price. I might use these so I just have to drill another hole with a hole saw and mount.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/terminal-cups/input-cups-nb-cup/
They echo pleasingly if I put my face in the open hole and hum. 🙂 Can't tell you much else yet.
The drivers are burning in as I type. I'll glue the rest up this evening and be able to mount and listen tomorrow night. Final finish to come later. I'm thinking something subtle, like orange.
Binding posts for 1/2" thick material seem to be somewhat hard to find for a reasonable price. I might use these so I just have to drill another hole with a hole saw and mount.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/terminal-cups/input-cups-nb-cup/
I'd use something like this...
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/yung-binding-posts/posts-bg-postr-binding-post-red/
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/yung-binding-posts/posts-bg-postr-binding-post-red/
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