Yeah, the instrument sound location is definitely not where the speakers are. One time I tricked our 15 yr old into guessing the wrong speaker set that was playing, when I had two vastly different pairs (4" vs 15") setup at the same time. I thought I'd read here this attribute being ascribed to Mark Audio drivers in an acoustically transparent "felt" enclosure, but I cant find that thread anymore. Seemed like quite a different way to go about it!
My tombstone OBs are literally tables turned to stand on-end. To make them point up horizontally at ear level would take a much bigger pile of milk / produce cartons than I happen to have on hand...
My tombstone OBs are literally tables turned to stand on-end. To make them point up horizontally at ear level would take a much bigger pile of milk / produce cartons than I happen to have on hand...
Up firing Sony. The woofer is in a tube, tweeter and the super tweeter not in the same plane, but horizontal. Two more tweeters on both sides angled at 45 degrees, looking up. Speakers placed 3m away from each other, back flush to the wall. Woofer at 105cm from floor, 1.65m to ceiling from woofer. 62cms to wall/wardrobe on both sides. About 1,5m away from speakers, they vanish as the source of sound.
Usually with a grill, taken off to photograph.
And, I am playing with these car speakers with tall cardboard boxes and tubes. Lovely omni sound. A real enclosure would be build later.
Usually with a grill, taken off to photograph.
And, I am playing with these car speakers with tall cardboard boxes and tubes. Lovely omni sound. A real enclosure would be build later.
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I enjoy a combination of point source and omni. When seated in the very generous "sweet spot" the point sources dominate and the omnis just create "space".
Outside of the "sweat spot", the omnis help fill in the off-axis dips of the point sources and maintain a very consistent, even if not "vivid", stereo sound stage almost anywhere in the room.
Very diverse in application, from solo critical listening to general easy listening with others.
My current speakers sound excellent from any of these positions:
Outside of the "sweat spot", the omnis help fill in the off-axis dips of the point sources and maintain a very consistent, even if not "vivid", stereo sound stage almost anywhere in the room.
Very diverse in application, from solo critical listening to general easy listening with others.
My current speakers sound excellent from any of these positions:
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That's an interesting pair of speakers. Can you describe them? Does placing them near the window helps?
I was not talking PA but about room bound sound.
Modern nearfield monitors all employ some sort of directivity control, anything between waveguides and horns. The aim is to get a fairly constant FR at a sufficiently large sweet spot without having to worry too much about toe in etc. Outside the sweet spot, more a sweet line, the FR typically goes haywire as a direct result of the hardware employed to control directivity.
Now why does this matter? After all, we are not listening outside the sweet spot with monitors, typically? The reason is psycho-acoustical. The Haas effect describes that we localize sound by the first wave front that arrives. Reflections are not perceived consciously. However, these reflections are very important to determine timbre.
Now, what happens when the FR goes heywire outside the sweet line? In a normal listening room, there are always reflections. If these reflections are from a FR that is all over the place, the timbre will not be correct. This kind of speaker is therefore only good near field, or in a very dampened room.
In a true omni speaker, the FR is identical in all directions, so all reflections are based on a flat FR and thus the timbre is more acurate.
I hope this explains it better.
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They are Planet 10 microTowers with dual CSS EL70 drivers.
Placing them near the window helps me enjoy them while I stare out the window at the mountains and sip my beverage!
Seriously, the top driver sound certainly bounces off the windows and increases the omni effect. The zig-zag blinds reduce this effect when they are closed.
Placing them near the window helps me enjoy them while I stare out the window at the mountains and sip my beverage!
Seriously, the top driver sound certainly bounces off the windows and increases the omni effect. The zig-zag blinds reduce this effect when they are closed.
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Yes, it should bounce off the glass. How does it sound? Somewhat ringing? Interesting how the blinds reduce it. I don't have blinds in our living room. I am using the front wall, which is the only one free. It is a solid brick wall, with all the external insulation to withstand high cold, like in Kamloops. 
I've been there in 2004. Beautiful area!
I've been there in 2004. Beautiful area!
I don't hear any ringing from the windows at all. Just that the omni effect is more evident when the blinds are open. The blinds/shades are 2" zig-zag profile, multi-layered with a fabric-like texture on them. They were certainly not installed with audio in mind, but they definitely do reduce reflections.
I put the speakers back as they-should-be facing forward and tried to listen for a while, just to test. It is not the same. So, they went back looking at the ceiling. Once, you get used to the up-firing speaker sound, its hard to go back to the "normal" set-up.
By the way, there's an extra advantage that they have two sideways firing at 45 degrees tweeters. Been reading about Master Nagaoka Tetsuo explorations on matrixed single stereo speakers, and one of the links (Japanese) did mention that Sony made radios with that matrix a long time ago, with 45 degree angled drivers. This being Sony, they might still be using that technology.
By the way, there's an extra advantage that they have two sideways firing at 45 degrees tweeters. Been reading about Master Nagaoka Tetsuo explorations on matrixed single stereo speakers, and one of the links (Japanese) did mention that Sony made radios with that matrix a long time ago, with 45 degree angled drivers. This being Sony, they might still be using that technology.
Most of the creators of speaker systems pointed the tweeters either at you or at 45 degrees towards the ceiling from the direct line from you, or 45 degrees towards the ceiling at all sides. All of them, sort of claimed that high sounds are too fast to be omni-directional. When the Sonys are up-firing, two tweeter (out of 3) looking away at 45 degrees, but not at me, one at the wall, and the other the other way.
OK, so I took another pair of speakers, 2-way, and placed them up-firing at ear level. Before doing that, I heard them firing forward for sometime. They are borrowed. Now, my pal is thinking how to place them up-firing in his flat, to find place with his furniture.
OK, so I took another pair of speakers, 2-way, and placed them up-firing at ear level. Before doing that, I heard them firing forward for sometime. They are borrowed. Now, my pal is thinking how to place them up-firing in his flat, to find place with his furniture.
I had never heard an Advent Maestro, but I had something like that in the 80s, called Altus 110. My son has them now, and won't sell. (Image attached is from the web, not his.) You are lucky to have vintage speakers.
They are big, and fill the room with sound, the bass really bangs your heart out. But still, they are not omni, or uni-directional. Even sitting at the "sweet spot," you can hear the separate speakers, for their massiveness. You need a large room to really listen to them. But, at quite low volume, the sound of those vintage speakers is a beaut, even in a small room.Now, by chance, I found how easy to have omni sound, just by upturning the Sonys. When I get up and walk around, the "sweet spot" walks with me. And, when I go out of the door, it stops. When, I come back through the door, it jumps back. When I go up to the long wall, the whole wall sings. It is as though the wall has gone, and the sound is coming from further than the wall.
Sure, you can't upturn the massive Maestros.
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